Terry's FORM CLOCK : question?

[S.C. Hunter]

Originally posted by S.C. Hunter:
   

Originally posted by jerseyboy:
It only took 40 years of shooting to realize this...oh boy

Yep same boat here. When I was still shooting a wheelie my draw was about 30.5" but that was with a release. I was shooting my longbow with a 28"-28.5" draw up until about a month ago. I now have a 29.5" draw, which I apparently had the entire time but was not taking advantage of that extra draw length. I was told initially that it is normal to be that much shorter with a trad bow.

I was shooting well and never thought about changing anything. I was bent a little more at the waist than I needed to be and my head was forward more than needed, but I was hitting my anchor and thought all was well.

I have been spending a lot of time just drawing my bow holding, and putting the focus on my back tension. I am now able to come to draw and hold a little longer if I need to and feel no need to release the arrow on contact with my anchor. I now draw settle in focus on a spot and release. My daughter has been using a timer when I do this and the hold is between 1.45-1.79 sec I have her start the timer when I reach anchor. I also have done this holding for 5 sec and then release, this is for backyard practice no target just a focus on my form. For me this feels like forever because before she could not start and stop the timer fast enough to time me. I literally would draw hit anchor and the arrow was gone. I have practiced a lot holding for up to 20 sec for 3-5 reps and then 6 reps. But then I do another 5-10 reps holding for up to 15 sec. I will never be a really slow shooter it goes against my natural rhythm. The difference now is I actually take that extra second or two at full draw to settle into the shot. Feels so much better. Thanks Moebow [/b]

Forgot to add I too have been shooting for about 40 years give or take a couple. I guess we never stop learning, or should I say we should never cease to learn something new.

[Mint]

Well i decided to work on my form since i knew it wasn't the greatest, in fact it kinda sucked. I read through every post in this thread and it finally clicked for me what i needed to shoot for.

The problem I had was that
i could never get my elbow back to really clench my back muscles together. One of the members of my archery club thought my build would make that
impossible so i didn't pursue it.

Last monday though I took an arrow and picked up my bow and didn't put the arrow on the sting but pretended to draw and sure enough it felt like i was able to get the proper form. so all week i prqacticed drawing my 45lb drake reproduction all the while driving my wife crazy having her look at my form. On Sunday i was able to get down to the club and try it out and it seems i am there with my lighter bows. I might be a tiny bit off but if i am i think i can get there. I know i must be doing something right since the upper back muscles are killing me today so they got a good workout.

The reason why i'm posting is that don't convince yourself that your body type won't let you work towards this goal. Pick up your bow and pretend to draw with an arrow to see if your body can do it. Then if you see that you can it will go a long way to you actually reaching your goal.

[Scott Barr]

I am long-time compound shooter turned born again traditional the last two years.  Last year I felt I was progressing well with traditional...groups getting tighter and shooter better at 25 yds. Then for the last year I got worse and have diligently tried to work through the frustration.  Thought is was my release as my groups were all going from left to right. Bought different bows, changed my anchor, tried bunch of finger tabs, went form split finger to 3 under and back. All the while not getting better. Bought the form master after watching Bare Bow 4 DVD multiple times.  Not till using form master did I realize that my bow arm was about 2 " forward causing movement when shooting. Now, by consciously pushing the bow and shoulder back, my release arm pulls at with back muscles naturally.  What a jump in accuracy!!  I really appreciate Tradgang and learning from all the folks that are happy to share their many years with the stick.  Next is getting Terry's DVD.

[FrankM]

Thanks for the DVD! I also found the answer I needed.

[Terry Green]

Great!!!!!!!!  That is what it was intended for.

[quail]

Where can you order the video??

[Terry Green]

Go to PowWow and look for Tradgang Store banner over the list of topics....  

[Firstlight]

Just ordered one yesterday, looking forward to watching the dvd.
 
Wish things didn't take so long to get up to the island here in Canada.

This thread has been helpful.  I'm unlearning some TP (short draw.)

I'm improving but relearning my form has me not shooting as well as I would like so it has it's frustrations.

New anchor (double), new draw and Moebow's rotational draw.

I do appreciate the effort and insights everyone contributes.

[RonD]

The most important question that I have, is "do you keep the bow arm straight and stiff or leave a slight bend at the elbow"? I have heard arguments that longbows require a slight bend in the bow arm, while the recurve requires a straight arm with locked elbow. A bent elbow for me lends itself to a shorter draw length. For me the locked elbow seems to work the best. And lastly, how does either method affect accuracy?

[Terry Green]

I think that is a personal question....and also depends on how you are built.

My arm doesn't over extend when locked, and still has a curve to it...I shoot locked, no matter recurve, longbow, or selfbow.  HH shot with a bent arm....didn't seem to effect his accuracy.

   

[JMR]

I read this post from the beginning last night and I think I finally understand how to use you back muscles. Using your elbow to "close the door" is what made it click for me. I shot tonight and when I focused on closing the door with my elbow I noticed the difference. My shooting was all over the place but I think that is because I was concentrating on my elbow and back. Just wanted to say thank you Terry for putting that info out there in an easy to understand format. I relate well to stick people I guess! Lol!

[Terry Green]

JMR...stick folks was the easiest and fastest way for me to do it....sometimes time is what I need most.

Stay after it...when you change something, sometimes it takes time to get use to it...and groove it in.  Get all your energy going directly toward and away from the target, and your windage will be a non-issue...as long as your not torquing the string.

   

[JMR]

I'm staying with it Terry. It already is starting to feel more natural and I think in the long run my accuracy will be much better. Thanks again

[RonD]

When viewing photos of people at full draw I notice that most are holding the bow vertical instead of canting the bow. I decided to give this a try with my recurve and was amazed at what a difference it made when holding the bow in a vertical position. My form and accuracy has also improved tremendously since I stopped canting the bow. Jonsimoneau also made the point in another thread that the muscles used to draw the bow is an important factor in shooting form and accuracy. When I draw the bow in a canted position I find that I tend to rely on the muscles in my drawing arm rather then the back muscles. Shooting the bow vertically has led me to use the back muscles and the back tension to draw and release, and has given me the essential alignment of the bow arm, arrow, and shoulders needed for a better shooting form. For me this has been a tremendous improvement overall in my shooting form and accuracy. This is a fantastic forum and has really helped me enjoy archery more than ever.

[Terry Green]

Ron....you should be able to draw the bow correctly no matter the cant....or even reverse cant.  

Stand straight up and draw the bow.....then lean over at the waist....why would there be any difference?....cause there's not. You can draw incorrectly standing straight up....seen it many times before...standing straight up doesn't guarantee good form.

Standing vertical may have helped you get alignment better, the that's the same feeling I get in all 3 of these positions....

 Over the Pond......

And, canting does NOT shorten your draw length if you are properly aligned.

[RonD]

My problem there may be the fact that I am not bending at the waist to cant the bow. Instead, I am standing straight up and canting the bow. Recent cervical spine surgery has forced me to change my shooting method and I am having to relearn form all over again. The titanium plates that they placed on the vertebrae to straighten a compressed spine limits my movements to some extent. That is the reason I am shooting the way I am and working to improve it everyday. Plus, being 70 years of age, the old body isn't inclined to make compromises. The way I am shooting now as stated in the earlier post has been a tremendous improvement and has helped me increase my draw weight. Everything you have posted on this thread has helped me and I thank you for that, because it has really helped. I will try the bending at the waist to cant the bow and see what happens.

[Terry Green]

Ron..if you are standing straight and canting...you could be torquing the string...are you canting your head with the bow?

[RonD]

I realized the other day that I was not canting my head with the bow. I tried what you suggested by bending at the waist and I was hitting high and left. When the rain stops I am going to see what canting the head along with canting the bow in a standing straight position. I really think I will shoot better if I cant the bow. Torquing the string is a definite possibility. Things are getting better with each shooting session and I am finally back to my original draw weight of 46#. Thank you so very much for all of your help in improving my form.

[Terry Green]

[BE Wild Willy]

Great stuff!!!

I'm waiting to receive my first Trad bow since the 80s and can't wait to try to work on proper form.

Much thanks from Shingletown...BEWW