Variations of Stance

[Black Gold]

Let me start by saying that I am a big believer in the "there are a million ways to do it...find which combination works best for you" statement.  

With that said I'd like to hear who (if anyone) shoots with more of a "squared off" or what's sometimes called a "tactical" or "fighting" stance towards the target.  I've been getting critiqued from a respected archer and boyer for a while now and this is the type shooting stance he uses and teaches.  I love the way it feels and my shooting has improved since I switched to it.  It definately gives your body more stability and ability to turn and swing.  It also feels more natural to me because with my law enforcement background it is the exact same stance I've been taught with pistol shooting, tactical rifle shooting, and fighting.

Anyone out there use this stance?

[Terry Green]

When you square off, you begin to muscle the bow, and use less bone structure to hold the shot on target.  You will be less stable, expecially on shots you have to create and manufacture in the field,  You will tire quicker, and you will have miss directed energy, and possibly create bow torque and most likely too little back tension....and even a shoorter draw length.

In other words,.....what you stated is the opposite of what I believe.  I believe that proper alignment is the foundation of shot, and the more solid the foundation, the more solid the shot.  That foundation can be rotated right or left, ....or bent up or down, and the foundation is still solid. And is certainly is not unstable.

Bow shooting position is not like the position of shooting a pistol or fighting.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

[Black Gold]

Thanks Terry.

[R H Clark]

I agree with Terry. I line up so that I don't have to use my muscles to turn in line with the target.My foot placement is so that if someone were to give me a little push I wouldn't have to move my feet to keep my balance.

[BobCo 1965]

Black, I'm a little confused as to what you are describing. Do you mean a square stance as opposed to an opened stance?

   


Or, are you referring to more of an agressive type of posture with the knees bent, etc?

[Black Gold]

More of an open stance, but your toes pointing more towards the target than to the right....in the pic you posted the "center of target" arrow would be facing tot he right and not up.

Kinda like a boxer squaring off to you.   I shoot right handed.  My left foot is out in front about 2o'clock to the target.  My right foot is back very slightly also at 2o'clock....I'll try to take a photo and post.

[Black Gold]

Ok...here is a quick pick....my face looks like it is a 200lb bow...anyway....here is the stance I use...  

[capt eddie]

Your not using your full draw.  If you used a more squared off stance it would allow you to relax more and have consistance shooting form from arrow 1 to arrow 25.  You will increase your draw by an inch or more.

[Big'n]

Black, Fred Asbell taught me to "square" off even more than you are. I stand facing the target and just drop my left foot back ( I'm a lefty) even with the instep of my right. When I stand as Terry says I have the rare problem of overdrawing. It took awhile to get used to but standing facing the target increased my focus about two fold. I don't have any problems getting proper back tension. I caution you though if you shoot this way you will have to bend the knees a slight amount and twist a little at the waist. If you don't , as Terry said you'll be all out of alignment. I like shooting like this way and am not as good a shot as Mr. Green but I'm working on it. GOODLUCK, DAVE

[Black Gold]

Dave,

Good to hear from you!  I knew there were others out there!  I do frequently bend over much more than in the photo....was focusing on trying to get the photo right....I was told there are very few who use a squared off stance, but that they were out there....I've seen first had excellent shooting from a guy who uses it and it had improved mine as well....just searching for the other black sheep in the flock!    

I didn;t shoot like this forever....I had a 25" draw when I shot the other way I also have a 25" draw now.....

[BLACK WOLF]

Ultimately...the results are what's important...not everyone will benefit the same way for every choice and circumstance.

If a stance improves your accuracy and fulfills your goals than that's a good thing...BUT as Terry said...there are certain biomechanical positions that take advantage of the skeletal and muscular systems and make it easier to perform the shot and we should all be aware of them so we can at least make educated decisions.

Part of the fun in archery is trying different things to see how they work or how we can make them work.

Ray  

[PigStikker]

I shoot squared off too and helps my focus as well.  It also keeps me from hitting my stupid arm guard when I am wearing one that doesn't hug my arm tightly.  It does take some concentration to make sure the back tension is there, make sure I pull straight back and don't pluck, but it allows me to keep both eyes on the target and look right down the arrow.  You just have to make sure certain fundamental items are there and then put them together to make them work.  I believe a good teacher will not try to force his student into a mold, because he may not fit.  A good teacher will reshape the mold to fit the student.

Matt

[Orion]

Using the picture above, a square stance is more of a target stance than an open stance.  No doubt it is easier to bring your back muscles into full play with the square stance.  However, most stickbow shooters use more of an open stance.  Howard Hill had an open stance, as shown in this picture, and he leaned forward a little and tilted his head down a little.  And he was one of the best, if not the best, shot who ever lived.  The problems come when that open stance is opened even more, i.e., turned too much toward the target.  Then, it's very difficult to pull properly with your back and keep your drawing arm, shoulder properly aligned.  You'll know it when you do it because the bow will be more difficult to draw, and your release will more than likely be out (a pluck) rather than back, because you won't have enough back tension.  Good luck.

[Terry Green]

In the original post, the words 'square off' were used,...and I assumed you were basicaly facing the target.

If you would have used the words 'open stance'...then I would have responded differently.

I've always said that form and proper alignment was from the waist up....and that closed or open was a personal preference for your 'go to' shot.  In the field, rotating left or right at the waist allows you to carry your alighment with you, and takes stance out of the equation.  I've made shots with extremely open and closed stances on game in the field.  Whether you choose open or closed doesn't mean you can't be properly aligned.

[Molson]

Your stance doesn't matter.  What kind of stance do you have when you shoot off your knees or while seated in a stand?  None!  What matters is the alignment above the waist.  I would call your upper body "squared off".  There's no easy way to put this so I'll just call like the picture shows.  

The reason that stance is more stable is because you have no bone alignment up top.  That stance allows more muscle to support your muscles which are the only thing doing the work.  Comparitively speaking, you'd be limp-wristing your pistol or chicken-winging your tactical rifle.

If the picture shows you at full draw, you easily should be at 26 or even 27" instead of 25.  I made the same mistake for the same reasons and it took alot of work to fix.  Fundementals are fundementals regardless of how you execute them.

[Black Gold]

Molson,

I want to learn....what do I need to do to correct the problem?

[Adam Nease]

I "square off" when I shoot. I really bend my knees also with my right one bent more than the left. My upper body weight is shifted behind me and my hips are shifted forward. Completely different than the way I've noticed that other people on this forum shoot.
I also tend to cant my bow alot but My accuracy doesn't depend on how much my bow is canted or isn't for that matter.
And why would I want to increase my draw length? I would only have to throw away my wood arrows sooner.

[R H Clark]

Black Gold,
The thing that helped me the most was going to some shoots and watching world class shooters and asking questions. Just talking to and shooting with Rod Jenkins helped me more in an hour than a year of practice by myself.

You can listen to a lot of folks,some know what they are talking about and some don't.That is why I like to see them shoot first.Even listening to great shooters some things will fit you and some won't.Even so from what I've seen all the great archers have some basics of form that will be the same and can be learned by watching and asking questions.

BTW the place to ask questions is at the practice range NOT during the match.

good luck my friend
Randy

[Molson]

Adam- It's not about increasing your draw, its about actually reaching your draw through alignment.  If you don't, you are more likely to pluck the string, torque the bow, or collapse your release.

There's nothing wrong with shooting the way that works for you and makes you happy.  You're the only one who can answer whether you're satisfied or not.

[PigStikker]

Well, after reading this thread a week or so ago, I decided to mess around with my alignment an I will admit, my accuracy has improved, as has my arrow flight.  I still pluck a bit from time to time, but that's just a lack of concentration on back tension.  I definitely feel more "relaxed" when I am properly lined up.  The main reason I began squaring off was to get the arrow directly beneath my eye and to quit hitting my arm guard.  Well, I can put the arrow beneath my eye while properly aligned and for some reason, I don't hit my arm guard anymore.  I guess what I have learned is not to become so rigid and set in one way that you quit learning.

Matt