Help tuning a Dreamcatcher

[bigcountry]

I have a 50# dreamcatcher, dacron string with cat whiskers. 8"BH  I cannot get rid of a flipping or poipoising action no matter what I do.  I have tried 4 arrow spines.  3 different point weights.

My draw is about 29".  Probably less.  I have tried 2016, 2018, and 2216 and 60-65lb Port cedars.  Point wieghts 125gr, 145gr, and 175gr.  I have worked on this for over 2 months because after 20 arrows or so I get sloppy, and notice I start getting fish tailing and bad shooting.  2216 shows way too stiff and complete waste of time.

I have tried bare shaft, paper, and broadhead tuning. No matter where I set the nocking point, I get flipping up action.  There is a sweet spot about 1/2" over center from my riser bottom with least amount of flip.  

All my combos seem to be having fletching contact with the rest. So I guess I am not bending around the riser enough.

Only combo that even hinted to working well is 175gr tip and 30" 2016 arrow.  But this makes no sense.  Cause a 2016 30" arrow with 125gr tip is what I shoot on my longbow that is 50#.  I would imagine a recurve needs much more spine.  Also a few of my cedars with 125gr hint on working well.  

One thing I notice, when I try to tune the Brian Sorrell way watching which way the nock goes on a bag target, I get perfect flight with 2016 with 145gr tip, and my 2018 with 175gr tip.  I mean I am shooting at a bag bareshafted at 20 yards, and it shoots well and straight. Its just when I put feathers on, I see the flip.  Also, my feathers are taking a beating closer to the riser.

I have tried a small leather rest.  No backing plate, and now have a bear hair rest.  Seems to have gotten worse with the bear hair.  

I really don't want to go lighter in spine.  I am arrow poor at this moment.

[vermonster13]

Mine liked Axis 500s with 125 up front and a 50 grn insert.

How is you nock fit? Are you shooting split or three under? Is your glove starting to groove as you your hand sweats from shooting? How is your anchor and release? Lots of variables, work on one thing at a time.

[bigcountry]

I have filed down the nock to hold if I hold the bow horizontal, and bounce two times on the string.

I am shooting 3 under, which is probably part of my problem.  But I have shot my longbow for years 3 under and really would like to keep that style.

I need a new glove no doubt.  Its a damascus, but also see same results with neet tab.

Your 500's are stiffer spined than my 2016 I think.  But weaker than my 2018's.

[vermonster13]

They are in the middle of them.

How high have you tried the nock point?

[bigcountry]

I have tried about 1" over center and started from there.  And moved down in 1/16" increments all the way to about 1/4 under center to where the arrwo was bouncing off the riser.  I found 1/2" over center to cause my smallest tear on paper and smallest flip.

But shouldn't my arrows be paradox in'g around the riser?  Basically when I release, shouldn't it be bending in then out around the riser?

[bigcountry]

You know what guys, all this may make sense.  Playing around with the Chrony today, and here is the numbers.  My longbow is actually outperforming my recurve.  My longbow is almost a recurve with fastflight string and the design.  I know 2 or so fps isn't much.  But I was expecting the recurve to blow away the longbow.  Harder to pull back maybe due to the 8" BH.  Where on the longbow I have it at little under 7".  So maybe I should try some 1916's?  Or find a set of cedars that work like the few I got.  Thanks for alls help.  Or possibly get a high speed string.

Savannah Longbow
590gr 2018 with 175gr tip 159fps
560gr 2018 with 145gr tip 164fps
500gr 2016 with 125gr tip 175fps

Dreamcatcher Recurve
590gr 2018 with 175gr tip 157fps
560gr 2018 with 145gr tip 163fps
500gr 2016 with 125gr tip 173fps