CAN YOU HAVE TO MUCH ARROW WEIGHT

[Traditional-Archer]

BOW 58" WEIGHT OF LIMBS 1-55@27" LIMBS 2-61@27" I AM SHOOTING BEMON ICS 400 9.1 GPI 125-G TIP 15-G FOR FETHERS @ 26" TOTAL WEIGHT 413-G ON THE SCALE. SHOOTING AT DENTON WITH A FRIEND THATS BEEN SHOOTING 8 OR 9 YEARS TRAD EQUIPMENT,WELL TO MAKE IT SHORT HE THINKS MY ARROWS ARE TO LIGHT. I TEND TO AGREE. I THINK I AM GOING TO TRY SOME ARROWS I LOOKED AT TODAY. CARBIN EXSPRESS I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER. I LOOKED AT SO MANY. 12.1G 125 TIP 15-G FEATHERS 10-G INCERTS 27"LONG SHOULD BRING ME UP TO AROUND 500-G OR SO. AM I ON THE RIGHT TRACK OR WAISTING MONEY.IS 65 OR 85-G GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERANCE

[Orion]

At 500 grains, you're nowhere near having too much arrow weight.  65-85 grains won't make much difference.  A couple of hundred might.  Of course, you don't need much weight for deer size animals if your arrows are well tuned and broadheads are sharp.

[Jarrod Feiner]

I like the guideline that's out there: 10 grains per pound you shoot. I think my current set up is in the 12-13 per pound.

Orion is right: you could stack deer with your current set up. Beyond the penetration advantages of heavy arrows, other advantages of heavier arrows come with more quiet shots, and I'd have to imagine that the heavier arrows will translate to longevity of one's bow. Some arrows I've seen being shot out of trad bows (350 grain out of a #55 bow, for example--the bow sounds like a .22 going off) is too close to a dry fire for my taste.

You are on the right track. I'm sure that the penetration advantages of heavy arrows can get to a point of diminishing returns, but you aren't anywhere close to that point. Keep it up.

[jhansen]

The rule of thumb I use is 8 - 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of draw weight.  My current set-up is 9.8 grains per pound.  Seems to work.  I get good penetration not much much arrow drop over my max hunting distance of 20+/- yards.

The theory behind heavy arrows is that the additional weight aids in punching through bone if the shot isn't perfectly placed.  This is true up to a point.  What the super-heavy arrow advocates fail to take into consideration is that penetration is a combination of weight and velocity.  Given that a bow stores only so much energy, the heavier the arrow the slower it will fly.  There is no such thing as a free lunch in physics.  As you add weight you take away velocity and the equation evens out.  Don't take my word for this.  Stack up about 18" of wet newspaper, bind it together with twine, and stand it up on edge so you can shoot through the thickness.  Now take your bow and an arrow of around 8 grains per pound of draw weight and another of 15 grains/pound.  Shoot them into the stack.  Mark the arrows even with the surface of the paper stack.  Pull them and measure penetration.  You will see what I'm talking about.

John

[Traditional-Archer]

Orion,
thank you I figured but it is always good to here others repeat what you think you already know. And you are right about broadheads I think sharp broadheads are one of the most inportant ingredients in penetration as well thanks again.

[Traditional-Archer]

JARROD fEINER,
I also like 8 to 10 or even more depending on the bow setup draw length and so on. What I am trying to navigate through is the best way to develop the right arrow for the bow. 8 to 10 the right spine weight and so on. Thanks again Jarrod your help is well taken and very much appreciated.

[Traditional-Archer]

JHansen,
My new arrows are coming in at 27" I have an actual draw length of 25.5" is 27" long enough to start for tuning in the arrows. how and should I bare shaft tune my bow and arrows at this point or do I have more work to do.

[jhansen]

Bruce,
I like to start with as long a shaft as possible and with the brace height of the bow set as low as possible.  In other words, I want a weak spine initially.  Since your arrows are coming pre-cut, you will have to pass on the long-as-possible part.  An arrow should be at least 1" longer than your draw length so you don't cut your finger with a broadhead.  Yours will be 1.5" longer which is fine but doesn't give you much room to shorten the shaft.  What you are left with as variables are brace height and point weight.  The lower the brace height the longer the power stroke and the weaker the arrow performs.  You can twist up to make the arrow act stiffer.  You can increase point weight to make the arrow act weaker or decrease point weight to make it act stiffer.

I've never had any luck bare shaft tuning as a first step.  This is probably because I start off way weak and work toward stiffer.  I start off with a fletched arrow and shoot it watching for the old nock left = weak and nock right = stiff indications.  (Actually, in my case it is the opposite since I'm a lefty.)  Once I have a fletched shaft flying straight I'll do the fine tuning by the bare shaft planing method.  You may have better luck starting off with bare shaft than I do.  Try it and see what happens.  Tinkering with a bow and arrows is all part of the fun.      

John

[dan ferguson]

I like the simple method, just put a 0 behind your bow weight, 55#=550grn arrow, 61#=610grn arrow, should get close to good flying arrow for deer.

[Traditional-Archer]

JHanen,
Thanks it all makes good sense. I got my arrow yesterday and shot them today. they are shooting right at three feet from the target. doe's this meen I'm to stiff. You can tell they are comming off the rest lets say not straight at 20 yards. Thay are the 27" shafts the 28" shafts are not shooting good at all. 12.1 gpi 468 grains. It did by far quiet the bow down as I exspected.

[Traditional-Archer]

Thanks Dan.
Thats My goal but I think with my short draw I am going to have a hard time getting there ,if I want to stay with carbons 12.1 GPI 12.1 X 27" = 326.7 + 125 tip I can't go bigger with Carbon unless someone knows something I don't. 15 Grain for feathers. 466.8 + 5 for nock and insert. Total weight 471. Not bad using your method 50 lb 500.  

[jhansen]

Bruce,
Go lower on brace height if possible and definitely go heavier on point weight.  My guess is that your arrows are too stiff.

John

[vermonster13]

Brass inserts, steel glue inserts for glue on broadheads. Lots of ways to add weight to carbons.

[Traditional-Archer]

Thanks JHansen,
I am going to try that.
Next ,
I like to use turkey feathers,do you see a problem with the use of  tail feathers. I had this talk with my friend Mike a few weeks ago. He said he wasn't sure if the tail-feathers would be stiff enugh. What do you think.

[Traditional-Archer]

Vermonster13,
Can you tell me where to get the inserts.

[vermonster13]

3 Rivers has them last I knew.

[Traditional-Archer]

Thanks Vermonster13.

[Jim/LI]

I will not enter the debate about arrow weight and penetration, but if you are primarily an archer, not a hunter, there are lots of advantages to a lighter arrow.  I routinely shoot 3d from the compound stakes and often fling a few arrows at the field archery distances of up to 80 yards.  It is all but impossible to do this with a heavy arrow.  There seems to be some myth that a bow will fall apart at light arrow weights.  Olympic archers routinely shoot hundreds of thousands of shots with light arrows - 6 gpp or so.  My current setups are about 7.5 gpp for my modern bow and about 8.5 gpp for my vintage bows.  I do use B50 strings, but that is mainly to protect the bow from damage in case of a dry fire.

[Traditional-Archer]

Jim/LI
Sorry but not interested in modern day bows.I don't think there is any debate on trad-gang about arrow weight and penetration not at least that I picked up. It mostly is all about how each individual wants to set his or her bow up for hunting shooting what ever thats all,  Most Trad shooters I know do hunt including me thanks anyway.

[Jim/LI]

Ok, but you did post in the Shooters forum, not the hunting Pow Wow forum.

By modern, I meant a bow (recurve or longbow) made in the last 30 or so years.  My vintage bows are from the 50's and 60's.  I give them a little TLC.