Longbow Help

[LocDoc]

After about 5 months of shooting a longbow I’m about fed up with it. I knew learning a longbow was going to be hard, but this is starting to border on the impossible. I’ve been shooting a recurve for about 18 years, so I figured the transition to longbow wouldn’t be all that hard. I'm shooting a Bear Montana, 60 lbs, with a 30 inch draw. Also shooting GT 5575’s with 145 grain field tips. The arrows fly great, in fact most of the arrows I have shot through the bow fly well. But I can’t get any consistency. Even at VERY close range. At 20 yards, I spray the bag. Even at 10 feet, I’ll have arrows strike either left or right by up to 6 inches away from the mark. But the crazy part is, when I shoot my recurve (same poundage, same arrows), I’m busting nocks. I’ve tried everything I can think up to improve, but no luck.
Any suggestions before this longbow becomes fire wood?

[vermonster13]

Hard to say anything not seeing you shoot.

[dennis rice]

I KNOW WHEN I SHOOT A LONGBOW I HAVE A MUCH FIRMER GRIP THAN WHEN I SHOOT A RECURVE. YOU HAVE TO REALLY MANHANDLE A LONGBOW

[dragonheart]

PM Sent

[Artur]

Originally posted by dennis rice:
I KNOW WHEN I SHOOT A LONGBOW I HAVE A MUCH FIRMER GRIP THAN WHEN I SHOOT A RECURVE. YOU HAVE TO REALLY MANHANDLE A LONGBOW

This is for both you, William, and LocDoc;

The only real difference I have noticed in shooting a longbow, as opposed to a recurve, is the longbow usually has a different style grip than the recurve. It's a bit difficult to tell from the picture shown on the 3Rivers website, but it appears the Montana has the "classic" style longbow grip.

Even with this style grip, it is possible to hold the bow without "manhandling" it: Keep at least the "bottom" two fingers (ring and pinky) of the bow-hand relaxed -- they are there mainly to keep the bow from flying out of your hand when you release the string, not to keep the bow from twisting in your grip. You cannot grip a longbow of this style as you would most recurves, either: You have to "break" your wrist, to allow the bow-grip to be at (or near) 90 degrees to your bow-arm. The bow should pull back into the palm of the hand, instead of the web between thumb and fore-finger. See photos for "details":
 
I hope this helps to clarify at least one thing you may have been having trouble with.

[TSP]

Artur's photos show a very pronounced heel-down approach with fairly loose fingers...which may or may not work for you (it doesn't for me).  Another method, promoted by Howard Hill, is to grasp the riser more from the side of the bow with your fingers firmly settled around the grip and parallel with the ground (not angled up as in the above photos)...similar to how you might reach down to grasp a suitcase handle.  This grip places the riser firmly into the hand from the side, places the thumb knuckle closer to in-lne with the shelf for good alignment with the drawing elbow, and promotes a bent bow elbow...which is very useful for absorbing vibration and avoiding forearm/wrist string slap.  Unless wearing heavy clothes I find I don't even need an armguard with this grip, and it produces consistent results.  Give it a try.  Half the fun is to see what works for your own style and preference.

[BamBooBender]

I agree, the "suitcase" style grip works well with a straight longbow grip.I'm sorta the opposite of you, I shoot longbows and self bows well, but have consistency problems with recurves.  Go figure.          I find recurves to be a little touchy when it comes to grip and string torque.

   

Any suggestions before this longbow becomes fire wood?

You could send it to me for proper disposal.  

[Artur]

Well, I settled on the grip I use before I found Byron Ferguson's book ("Become The Arrow") -- and discovered that I use basically the same grip he does, including "loose" fingers. The only real difference I can see is that my bow does not have a Howard Hill grip design.

Mr. Ferguson's hand does not look to me as if it were wrapped around the bowgrip as if he were holding a suitcase handle... Maybe it's the difference in the grip design, my bow vs the HH design.

"Bottom line", though: If you try to hold even a HH longbow as though it were a "pistol-grip" recurve -- as though you were going to shake hands with someone, things are going to go wrong.

[madness522]

I had a similar problem when I got my first long bow.  I could shoot well with the recurve but sprayed with the long bow.  I found that doing two things helped tremendously.  Of course the grips are different and neither bow can so should be held the same.  I found that if is put more heel into the grip it really helped the other thing and don't laugh but I point my index finger toward the target.  This helps me to not grab the bow with a Vulcan death grip as I drop the string.  These two things were about the only differences I found that worked to tighten up my groups with a long bow.

[LocDoc]

I want to thank everybody for their suggestions.  I went back to basics. Started shooting very close. I reread 'Become the Arrow' and Kidwells 'Instinctive Shooting'.
Working on getting a good vertical hold and seeing some improvement. I'm really focusing on "heeling" the grip with good form. With a locked in follow-thru. Maybe there is hope for me after all.

[Stagmitis]

The only pressure on a Hill style grip should be within an 1 1/2 below the shelf..."Heeling" ANY bow creates havoc...

[Artur]

Originally posted by Stagmitis:
The only pressure on a Hill style grip should be within an 1 1/2 below the shelf..."Heeling" ANY bow creates havoc...

It depends on the bow and the person wielding it. In any case, a longbow with a "straight" grip -- and this includes even Howard Hill longbows -- is not designed to be held the same way as a modern "pistol grip" recurve. To hold even a Howard Hill longbow as one would a modern recurve will "create havoc".

Unless the bowgrip is so designed, it is useless to pull the bow into the web of the bowhand.

[buckeye_hunter]

Locdoc,
I agree with Vermonster.  Get some pictures posted and he and Terry can really get it straightened out for ya'. Can't tell you how much they helped me in shooting my longbow.  I used to spray the bag as well(even at 5 yards), but now I'm dead on out to 15 yards and decent to 20.
-Charlie

[Stagmitis]

"To hold even a Howard Hill longbow as one would a modern recurve will "create havoc".

The havoc only begins if you dont....

"Unless the bowgrip is so designed, it is useless to pull the bow into the web of the bowhand."

Actually, its useless if you dont...

"The only real difference I can see is that my bow does not have a Howard Hill grip design".

It may be beneficial to actually shoot a Hill grip long enough to truly understand it....

[TSP]

There are admittedly a variety of ways to grip a bow, even a Howard Hill style bow, and still get decent results.  Nothing is absolute.  But, if you'd like to see how it was done by Howard Hill himself, check out the 'Legends & Pioneers' section of this site.  Click on "Howard Hill" and you'll see some excellent little film 'shorts' of Hill (posted by Tom Mussatto...thanks, Tom!) showing his style.  I particularly like the segment titled 'Self Defense' for the opening view of Hill shooting at a sandbank...showing his stance, draw and overall fluid form....the man was smooooth.  The action is a bit faster than normal but still a great glimpse at the 'real' Howard Hill style.  (Thanks again, Tom!  I never tire of looking at that old footage).

[Reformed]

It might not be you at all some bows area little more finiky about what string material is used fast flight vs dyna flight so give it a try with a different string and see if there is a noticable change.
Jerry

[deerhunter191995]

i am building a long bow where can i get some string

[deerhunter191995]

thanks but where can i get some