Instinctive Shooting

[Rabbit Stew]

Alrighty ive been an archer for about 2 years now but a few months ago i just got out of it. Now that hunting season is just around the corner ive started back up and would like to try instinctive shooting. Before I always closed one eye and looked at the arrow head but I really like the idea of instinctive shooting because of its simplicity and the traditional factor. For my gear I have a 35# recurve I use a glove I just bought, i shoot off a hair rest on the shelf and I have no gadgets on my bow whatsoever. Id like someone to get me off to a good start with this like what to do and how to get me on the right track. Also im wondering if I practiced everyday instinctive shooting for about an hour would I become skilled enough to hit a snowhoe hair at o say 10 yards. I know it varys for different people but id sure like to get half decent before wabbit season

[tim-flood]

Yes, practice by standing in front of your target at about 5 yds and shoot one arrow, then take a big step back and shoot another arrow and keep doing that to about 25 yds, never shoot from the same place twice.

[dan ferguson]

I,ll probably get hammered but here it goes anyway, To get good at instintive shooting you must get your form forged into memory, got to be consistant, got to believe your bowhand is on target when you reach anchor, and you have to have 100% concentration on the dot you want to hit, Don,t get discouraged sometimes it takes many years to develope into 100% instintive. I have been shooting this way a long time and still feel I use split vision method except now I am focusing on the dot more and in hunting the only thing i see is what I,m shooting at

[Terry Green]

Good post Dan......form and proper alignment are MUCH more important than 'how' you aim.  Once you have form and proper alignment 'grooved in'....then your aiming will come along a LOT faster due to you knocking out lots of negative varibles of executing the shot.

You gotta learn the shot before you learn to shoot.

Once you get your form and alignment grooved in, then practice at known AND unknown distances will help you learn to 'aim'.

Also, you should use a bright fletch(flo-yellow) so your eyes can transfer the trajectory image to your brain....don't shoot arrows that you can't see in flight.

[Target Killer]

I just got back into archery after 10 yrs. I shoot a recurve bow. I went a brought a Cobra Sight, I found myself not using it to aim, I would Instinctive Shooting. So, I took the sight off and have not use since. I do find that form and alightment is so inportant.

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by Terry Green:

You gotta learn the shot before you learn to shoot.

That's the  most succinct explanation for shooting a Trad bow that I've ever seen or heard.  Bravo, Terry!...          

I think I may be getting there.  In the last few weeks, I've begun to "see" the arrow flight as I release.  This explanation falls far short of the experience but it's like I can "see" the trajectory the instant of release and know if the arrow is going downtown at that second.

Seems as if the harder I concentrate, the poorer I shoot.  The best mode is relaxed but focused.

Not missing much either and have begun stretching my comfortable range as well, since this has begun happening.

This explanation is inadequate, but I believe you guys who have BTDT know what I mean...

[LCB]

Also, you should use a bright fletch(flo-yellow) so your eyes can transfer the trajectory image to your brain....don't shoot arrows that you can't see in flight

Excellent advice! Natural turkey feathers are nice, but not for the novice. I like orange and yellow, with at Fl green nock on my practice arrows    

I would also suggest practicing from 5 to 10yds for at least a month to promote mind and muscle memory.  then I would go about practicing from different yardages. STUMP shoot as much as possible. I never consider the yardage when shooting. Only the SPOT!

I never believed in this 50 arrows a day business. You can learn much more from one well thought out shot. Also once fatique sets in, or focus is lost flinging arrows can be futile.

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by LCB:

I never believed in this 50 arrows a day business. You can learn much more from one well thought out shot. [/b]

I'd have to dissagree with that....as you must also learn to repeat the shot.....over and over so your subconcious can burn it in, and the mechanics of the shot are run without thought once it is burned in.  

Take free throws for intance.  Would you learn to shoot 80% from the line shooting one a day or 50?  Any basketball player will tell you the same answer. Same answer with shooting a bow, or throwing a football, or swinging a bat.......you can't get better at something by not doing it.

[LCB]

You have a point Mr Green, but my point was that one proper shot was better than 50 shots using improper form.

Yes practice will burn form into the subconscious, but we need to ensure that proper form is achieved prior to putting a mental footprint on our brain.

Once proper form is achieved then YES repetition is key. Would you not first teach the basketball player how to properly shoot a basketball? Again after proper form is achieve then I would highly suggest shooting more than 50 arrows a day. BUT keep in mind that at some point returns will deminish!

[Terry Green]

" but my point was that one proper shot was better than 50 shots using improper form."

Yes, and that's the only way anyone should practice....I have never encouraged anyone to shoot ANY badly executed shots, either one or fifty.....ALL practice shots should be executed properly.   All shots should be the best one can do.  50 shots with proper form is better than one shot with proper form....that is my point.  Just because someone says you should shoot more does not mean they are saying to take bad shots.  You can't learn and build on your experiences if you don't have any.

"Would you not first teach the basketball player how to properly shoot a basketball?"

Yep, but how am I going to teach him if he only shoots ONE?  You can't get better at something by not doing it.

Payton Manning didn't throw one pass a day - Michael Jordan didn't take one jumper a day - Tiger woods didn't take one stroke a day - to get to where they are today.

[BobCo 1965]

Just because someone says you should shoot more does not mean they are saying to take bad shots.

Just to expand, IMO, a "bad shot" does not necessarily mean an inaccurate shoot. I totally agree that it's very tough to "burn in" an aspect(s) of form with out repeatability. However, when burning form, your shots do not necessarily need to be accurate to be "good".


-Just reread what I wrote, I have no idea if I made my point clear.  

[LCB]

If you want to use Manning, Woods and Jordan as examples then we have add natural ability to our discussion:)

Terry I agree with you that practice is the single most valuable asset in our sport. No one can become proficient by only randomly performing one shot. My comment on the one shot was intended to get Rabbit Stew thinking about how he goes about his practice sessions. Understanding that sometimes less is more, and not to sacrifice form for numbers. I think we are on the same page here, just looking at from a different perspective.

[LCB]

Bobco 1965,

We are talking about instinctive shooting here! I think I understand what your saying about shots not necessarily needing to be accurate.

Sometimes when focusing on a specific aspect of the shot I lose concern for where my arrow impacts. I do this a lot while blind bale shooting.

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by LCB:
If you want to use Manning, Woods and Jordan as examples then we have add natural ability to our discussion:)

 

Natural ability is worthless unless it is applied.  All of those above, as with any person that want's to be good at something, has honed their natural ability through practice.

If Tiger Woods had never picked up a club untill today, even though he had all that natural ability, how well do you think play his 1st round starting tomorrow?

If anyone wants to improve, no matter their God given level of ability, they have to apply themselves.

[LCB]

If Tiger Woods had never picked up a club untill today, even though he had all that natural ability, how well do you think play his 1st round starting tomorrow?
 

Probably better than me:)

[LCB]

 Natural ability is worthless unless it is applied.

Thought we were talking about folks who applied it?  

 

If anyone wants to improve, no matter their God given level of ability, they have to apply themselves

So what your saying is that any archer can be just as good as the next guy by just applying himself more, and that natural ability plays no real factor.

[BobCo 1965]

Originally posted by LCB:
Bobco 1965,

We are talking about instinctive shooting here! I think I understand what your saying about shots not necessarily needing to be accurate.

Sometimes when focusing on a specific aspect of the shot I lose concern for where my arrow impacts. I do this a lot while blind bale shooting.

My post was made to help define what makes a bad shot from a good one. There are those that feel accuaracy is the only measure. I was just just pointing out that it is not. The post was not meant as an attack or directly to you specifically.

[AllenR]

One perfectly shot arrow is better than a dozen arrows with a serious form flaw.

However, it's not going to help you much on the last few arrows of a 60 arrow tournement and you can barely hold up the bow.

An hour a day is great for a beginner if he understands form and alignment.  He is developing strength and form.  His form will certainly have to be refined a little as he builds strength and endurance, but probably won't be seriously detrimental to shooting bunnies at 10 yards.

To improve your ability at longer ranges an archer must shoot purposeful arrows and work on one part of his form at a time.

Everyone has offered good advice above, but the key for Rabbit Stew is to find out what good form looks like and how good execution operates.

As a beginner in recurve shooting, I have learned that this information is not easy to come by.  There are several books and videos available.  While all of them have some good information all of them seem to be written by self taught archers who are passing on what they have learned.  They don't seem to have tapped into the archery skills of the past as well as one would hope.

Rabbit Stew, one of the best things that you could do to learn to shoot a recurve, is to find a good coach.  They are few and far between for instinctive shooters, so you will probably have to go to a FITA style coach. Almost everything about form and execution is transferable when you go back to shooting hunting style.  

There are certainly differences, but by the time you make the transition, you will likely understand these differences.

Good luck
Allen

[JC]

Originally posted by BobCo 1965:
My post was made to help define what makes a bad shot from a good one. There are those that feel accuaracy is the only measure. I was just just pointing out that it is not. The post was not meant as an attack or directly to you specifically.

I'm curious, what is the measure of a good shot if it's not hitting what you are aiming at?

And, curious if there is ANYTHING else that you can get better at by doing LESS? Not trying to be a smart alec, I just don't believe you can improve without lots of arrows...good arrows mind you, but still a lot of them. By the way, I'm one of those "50-100 arrows a day" believers.    

Good advice on the coach, if you can find one. I think 99% of most trad shooters are stuck with self teaching or at best, other shooters at local shoots helping them out etc. I think a video camera is the second best teacher...comparing your form and results to others then making the modifications where necessary.

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by LCB:
[qb]  

Thought we were talking about folks who applied it?  

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!...thanks for proving my point