NFAA -Doing away with Traditional Class?

[artvin]

I know most of us in here are primarily hunters, but this could affect many.

There is a proposition coming up for vote in the NFAA to limit all classes to only compound. Freestyle, Freestyle Limited, Bowhunter, and Barebow  will be the only classes.  FITA style recurve and traditonal classes may drop by the way side.

If there are any tournament shooters in the traditional class you need to contact your State Director regarding this measure.

Wheather you are a competitive shooter or not, Indoor Dot shooting is one of the better ways to really work on your shooting form.

Art

[Shakes.602]

It Cant Be Because the U.S. has a Lock on the Sport, doesnt Korea pretty Much Dominate that Discipline?
  THAT is Nothing but a Slap-In-The-Face for Competition Recurve, FITA Competitors, is it not?
  So if I get the Greenery and the Championships Needed to "Shoot Vegas", it HAS to be with a Compound? It just aint Right I tell ya, it Just aint Right.

[M60gunner]

I for one just sent an email to NFAA asking for some details on this measure. It does come as a surprise that a motion like this would come up. NFAA has had a decline in members for the last few years ( that is why they raised my dues, their words). After almost 30 years I for one would not see any reason to belong.
Another thought has crossed my mind, how could a club put on a shoot that says "NFAA rules apply" to awards etc. and shooting styles. I can not seeing our club doing it. That is a sure way to lose shooters and income.

[artvin]

M60gunner,

You can go to the NFAA web site and read the proposal.

https://www.nfaausa.com/documents-forms/

Go down to the minutes of the Sept meeting.  The paragraph concerning this is towards the bottom of the page.

Art

[longbowguy]

Well, that is sad, as their sport and their organization were founded by stickbow archers. If they leave us, we will have to leave them. The JOAD (Junior Olympic Archery Development) archers would be abandoned by this proposed action too, and those young people lost to the sport, perhaps for life. Very sad and short sighted.

[Scott J. Williams]

The NFAA has long been moving away from traditional shooters.  Please don't include FITA in with traditional archers, sites, and long stablizers are not what traditional archers use.  

It is a matter of money, or more correctly lack of numbers.  Traditional archers, generally are hunters, and as hunters have moved away from NFAA type organizations when they turned their backs on the people who founded the group.

Did you know that when the organization first came into being, that no two courses were the same?  Did you know that all of the distances were unmarked?  Did you know that the range was shot with dirt bank butts, and that broadheads were the points used?  

I think that the distinction between target and hunting has gone from a line, to a wall.  Now I have seen the same thing in 3d, it is not a sport that simulates hunting anymore, but one that is set up for high tech "Race" bows.  I can remember that you shot from a stake, or streamer and the only thing that was promised was that the kill area was clear, you had to sometimes lean to make the shot,  it taught you the shots you should not take, and taught you how to make the others.  

I am afraid that there is no one group that will be all and everything to all archers.  Maybe this will breed a group of traditional target archers, who set the rules to further the skills of bowhunting.

Just a thought.

[dragonheart]

All competitive organizations in archery evolve to be controlled by the top 10% of the shooters.  The NFAA began with those people who were tired of standing in field (NAA) and shooting.  They wanted terrain and unmarked distances like bowhunting.  This evoled to field archery, which is target archery today.  The IBO evolved from disgruntled NFAA shooters who wanted a more bowhunting oriented target (3d) and were tired of "spot shooting".  The IBO today is target archery with an animal target.  Traditional archery 3d tournaments are the only shoots I have been to where the emphasis on each situation is solving a shooting delima simulating actual bowhunting scenerios.  Competitive archery will always work to please the top shooters.  Here is an example:  The NFAA changed the size of the target years ago becuase too many people shot perfect.  When they made it smaller they lost 1/2 there membership coming to the nationals.  Made it too hard for the average guy.  Look at current 3-D.  Why do you need a 12 ring or even smaller on a round that you are saying is to simulate bowhunting.  Does anyone hunt with a 30" stabilizer and a 4 power scope.  3D is target archery in its current form.  If you ask why the NFAA is going to drop traditional, it is money.  At the club level noone can support the current classes that are offered by the NFAA.  A club cannot afford to buy awards for all the classes they have.  Some class will have to be cut.  That will be the one that the least people participate in.  Most traditional archers I know are bowhunters.  NFAA field round do not lend themselves to bowhunting practice and no competitive traditional archer I know shoots instinctive at NFAA targets.  Hence the lack of participation and the cutting of the class will probably happen.  I bet you will see the compound nonsight cut or consolidated into one barebow class.

Jeff Schulz

[longbowguy]

It is true there are too many classes. But there is another remedy. That is to reduce or eliminate the age classifications in the smaller classes. In longbow, recurve primitive and traditional classes, where they are now offered; and perhaps in such classes as FITA recurve and barebow in localities where the classes are small, age does not seem to be much of a factor.  

In my area the trad classes are often won by master seniors or seniors and we would mostly be glad to shoot with the regular adults. Perhaps the youths would too if the classes are small. The cubs and peewees could be combined and everybody given a participation award and group applause. We do that hereabouts anyway and the kids enjoy that more than placing awards we also give them, I believe.

There is a lot of similarity between the barebow (face and stringwalkers) recurve style and the barebow compound class. They could be combined unless turnout is large in some region, as it way well be.

I see little need for both A, B, C flights as well as Adult, Senior and Master Senior divisions even in the principal compound classes.

Regarding trophies. I don't think most of us value most of them. Club pins, blue ones for the winners, yes. I have a pint jar of them and like getting them. Maybe a medal for a major event. I think a belt buckle for first place is a nice award. Free standing trophies? No room in my place for them.

So, yes, I think there are too many classes and
tabulation and awards take a painfully long time. And a lot of money is spent on trophies that are not much valued and mostly get discarded.

But I think some consolidation, mainly of age groupings in the smaller classes is an appropriate remedy. Kicking whole styles out of the game seems........unfair, intolerant, dumb, wrong.

[Scott J. Williams]

I think an organization geared to or for traditional shooters would be great. I think, if they stayed true to the goal of becoming better shots, under realistic(I stress that word)hunting conditions.  

In Texas, the Traditional Bowhunters of Texas, don't have a range, but leases ranges for the weekend all across the state.  They allow only recurves, longbows, or self-bows without sights and draws large numbers of shooters, of all ages.

I think it is time for traditional bowhunters to band together and start local, or state groups for that purpose.  I agree, the top ten percent of shooters often wind up getting most of the grease.  I will add that most of the top shooters are not, at least in most cases, real hunters. They may hunt, but punching paper, or shooting at a twelve rings at 3D targets on what seems  to be a Golf Course is his or her thing.

Another thing that would be an asset to a group like this is the fact that Ego, at least for the most part, is not all that big a problem with traditional archers.  It would also help to keep the "Big Money" out of it, because then you get people trying to change things.

Most of us would agree, realistic targets, placed at realistic ranges, on a beautiful course having some ups and downs, with like minded people from all walks of life.  The only thing I would enjoy better, is sharing a hunting camp fire with friends, and talking about the one that didn't get away.

[John Dill]

Until you get some "BIG MONEY" involved, we trad archers will have to accept what these archery  organizations offer (ASA, IBO, NFAA, NAA) etc.. You cant run an organization on charity and the wants of a few. Looking at it in the business perspective who can blame them for culling the trad group. The trad group in relation to the rest of the archery world has a pretty narrow focus. That focus is 20 yards and under at 3-D animal targets, some dislike competition, etc.. When the focus can resume back to the days of archery as more than a foam puncher....we might see our ranks within these organization grow stronger. I for one would love to see a national traditional archery organization come together. It would have to consist of more than 20 yard hunting shots to survive though. I wouldn't want to see a trad organization that dumb-down the challenge of archery, just to fill a niche within the trad community. Various classes of shooters with various formats of shooting.....just a thought from the dark side

[Scott J. Williams]

John,
     We are on the same page, I have to take issue with you on the twenty yard thing. I think your were using it as metaphor, but the shoots we take part in will give you shots out to forty and sometimes fifty yards.

       Not too bad on shedding some light for a guy from the Dark Side!

[John Dill]

Scott

Your correct. I was using the 20 yard thing as a metaphor. I dont mean it to be a sarcastic metaphor. But in the trad world it sometimes seems we have narrowed down to this thinking. I like all facets of the game! It makes us well rounded archers!

I'm not really from the dark side I just like to understand from the other side of the coin sometimes. In most cases....we dug our own hole      :D

[Matt E]

John, You are right on one thing."We dug our own hole". Trad archery is heading toward high tech and high tech is constantly moveing away from trad?
  You are wrong on another statement.Understanding the other side didn't make you a well rounded archer, Cindy,s cooking and Bojangles chicken was the cause.  

[John Dill]

Nature of the beast....were always trying to improve. I would say thats not the case in every place though. Plenty of die hard trad guys out their.

Matt E were do you get your info.....you haven't been allowed out of your house in 3 years(LOL)  

[Matt E]

John ole friend, my wife let me out for a few minutes day before yesterday!  
  When are you coming down our way. The wizard was asking about you ? He wants to put on another feed at his place. This should be  an enticement........ Could I be charged for baiting?  

[John Dill]

Matt E.

I ain't goin no where till I get a personal invite from the wizard. I know that will be tough since he forgot how to use his phone. Crazy ain't it....he dosent even owe me money (LOL)  :p  

Give me a call when your evening cell minutes are free you ole tight rascal!      :D

[Matt E]

I will get him to call you. I will let him use my cell phone. You know his phone system is two cans and a string.  
  Who are you callin tight? I prefer the word frugal!  

[John Dill]

You prefer the word "fruity" ...........flipped a new leaf huh!  :eek:        :D  

Give me a call. I'm looking forward to hearing from you!  :D

[Scott J. Williams]

Improvement is always good, but not by any and all means.  If you take a recurve bow, long bow, self bow, compound bow, in a shooting machine it can shoot to the same hole repeatedly over a given distance.

Seems to me that the improvement should be made behind the bow, and not in the bow.  Traditional archery appeals to those who don't mind putting in the work, effort, and study.  Yes, I said study, to learn the correct ways of setting up the bow, making bows, building strings..etc..

Target archery went to **ll when it became more focused on the shooting higher scores.

The bows changed to make what was once a challenge, to be less of one, for the purpose of making more money, not for furtherance of the sport of archey, target archery, or hunting.  If these people could make more money by kicking us all out of the sport, most of them would.

Have we been our on worst emeny?, Yes and no. We have expressed our desire to have a target forum, but most of our ranks are not "purest".  Before anyone gets there quivers in a knot, hear me out.

I have read many a response to these threads, where the guy or gal will say, Oh, I hunt with a compound, or I rifle hunt, or a combination of all three.  It is hard to have a strong  alliance, or dedication to something when your interest is so wide spread.

Yes, being a two season hunter is still alive and well.  I am not saying it is a bad thing, only that it is a factor.  I hunt only with a traditional bow, it doesn't make me a better, wiser, or cooler person.  It has given me a strong desire to protect what I think is important in that area.

While I enjoyed target shooting, once, and I think that a traditional class should be maintained, and participation should be encouraged(which it isn't from either side)I choose to omit that type of shooting from my traditional experience.

Can it be a benefit to the traditional bowhunter, of course it could.  The problem is that you can make rules for participation, but you can't make rules of attitudes.  I for one believe that a field archery organization set up for stickbow shooters would work. It's goal could not, and should mirror the NFAA, it would have to be one where the individuals goals would be allowed to grow.

Personally I think a target butt with a spot target, home course with a few 3D targets with a treestand of two thrown in, enjoyed by a friend or two can be more fun, and better practice for hunting.

Just my opinion, and we all know that my opinion and $1.30 will get you a large cup of coffee at MacDonalds.  Nuff Said!

[Jacko]

I'm really interested in the tone of this thread . Here in Australia we have the same issues and attidudes I have seen expressed here .In my opinion forming our own organisations has its place but in the end in this day and age when the anti everything archery or shooting get into us , it only weakens our position if we are fractured into a number of groups that are reluctant to talk to each other .

It is up to us as traditional archers to shoot in these organisations and participate in there form of archery and force them to accomadate us - make those money decisions in our favour .

 In this country we tend to sit around and whine about what the organisations could do better and then use this as an excuse not to participate . I got off my butt and actually got some important changes made - not exactly what was needed but they listened to me .

We traditional mob be us pre glass or post glass have a lot more history on our side and the techno stuff is chasing our legacy , but we are all archers . regards Perry