NFAA -Doing away with Traditional Class?

[Scott J. Williams]

Jacko,
     My hat is off to you, I understand your point, however when a group stops sharing your best interest, what do you????  That is why we have so many groups.  My suggestion would be to have a sportsmans congress.

      They you could have your perspective groups, that share your best interest, and have your representatives as part of the congress when a united front is required.  I agree that we all have a common interest, however that will never be addressed by one group that is the jack of all trades, and master of none.

       I hold to the idea that we could use a traditional target archery group. Maybe we wouldn't have targets out to eighty yards, maybe our courses would be a combination of 3D and paper targets, maybe the ranges would be unmarked, maybe some would be through the brush(vitals exposed), maybe you could have three levels of partication, the bronze course, silver course, and the gold course. That way you could shoot with similarly skilled archers, and gauge your progress....it goes on and on.  These are things the big boys, NFAA, would not do for fear of having the big shots scores go down. Forgive me, I digress.

   I fully understand your point about not diluting, I still contribute to the NRA, and other groups that protect my rights to hunt, and protect my rights to have access to land to hunt on.  

Cheers!

[John Dill]

Amen Jacko! To much internal division is our weakness!

Why can't we play more than one trad archery game. Seems to me were dumming things down if we set every tournament and archery event up at 20 yards and under. I guess thats why I'm an archer first. A bowhunter second. The better I am at shooting  in any situation, game, event, tournament, etc....the better I will be in the woods as far as accuracy goes. Plenty of backstraps in my freezer to prove my point too.    

Would love to see a national trad orginization that sanctions shoots like ASA, IBO etc.

[Scott J. Williams]

Excuse me, where did anyone say anything about 20yards and under?  Why is that some kind of holy number?  News flash, most traditional archers are notarchers first, they are bowhunters.  

This different mind-set has been a problem for years.If you are an archer first, then you are looking at this from a totally different point of view.  There is nothing wrong with that, but the end of target archery(God forbid)would not mean the end of bowhunting.

 I was told by a Bear Archery Rep, that target archers make a bow famos, but it is the bowhunters who buy archery gear.  There are not enough "target archers" to cover the bottom line.  

As far as a National organization sanctioning shoots like the ASA, or IBO, I disagree.  They would have to be structured to be different. If you haven't noticed, the number of shooters shooting in these shoots have dropped in recent years also.  They are a good point to start, but they are not without problems too.

[John Dill]

Scott

Your excused.

I believe you misunderstood my post as far as sanctioning shoots by a trad organization. I was refferring to the ASA and IBO for refference only...not as a model to copy in their "structure"

The 20 yard thing. Is exactly what it is. Theres a whole lot more to having archery fun, competitions etc...than setting up every trad event in a hunting manner. I am a hunter myself but I sure dont want to limit myself while enjoying shooting my bow in competition to 20 yards. I guess I'm with the 50s and 60s crowd that had alot more spice to archery competitions in their day. Nowdays if your a club holding a shoot you dare not put a target beyond hunting range without taking alot of heat. Just wish the trad community would embrace what this sport really can be. Narrow mindedness has gotten it where it is in some situations. And yes bowhunters make up the majority of archers but what about the thousands of archers going to tournaments. Wouldnt it be nice to have a traditional archery organization that sanctioned these individual trad shoots and gave us some organization. Organization would start a standard to competition, could organize hunting style competitions and for those wanting a challenge might offer field style shooting, ariel etc.......it might even open a few eyes   :D

[Scott J. Williams]

John,
     I don't know what kind of hunting clubs you guys have in North Carolina, but here in Texas, in Florida, in Michigan, and every other place I have competed in between, the 20 yard mark is not the max.

      I regularly shoot in traditional shoots where you are just a likely to come around the bend and see a coyote at thirty plus, or an elk at forty.

       If you read my earlier post, I even suggested a progessive level of competition for traditional shoots.

        Similar to A, B, and C classes. The ranges would be different with a higher degree of challenge for each progressive level.

         Not everyone wants to shoot sixty yards, like not everyone is crazy about 20 yards or less.  I personally don't like ranges set up in what look like golf courses, where there is nothing remotely similar to a bush with twenty yards of the target.

          I am a bowhunter, most traditional archers are too, I understand not all.  But the division in mindset between what we called paper punchers and hunters is a gap that I am afraid will never be bridged. That gap is the problem, and is responsible for the lack of participation in the NFAA.  

           It seems that the NFAA has forgotten it's roots.  Even their national shoot is only a shadow of what it once was.  Why do you think that is so?  It is for the reasons I have just detail, and I was a member of that group from 1977 until 1988.

[John Dill]

Scott

I like this idea you stated

"Similar to A, B, and C classes. The ranges would be different with a higher degree of challenge for each progressive level."

The division between most of the target archers and bowhunters out their today usuall resides within their initial opinions. Once there on the range things clear up for most and some maybe not. Competition may not be for everyone. But thats off the subject. Times change.....NFAA not withstanding in all areas. But that would not stop another organization fron starting it roots with todays trad frame of mind. I would love to see a trad organization come together. Would be tough probably. Takes money to greese the wheels.

[BLACK WOLF]

Here's my 2 cents in regards to classes.

From what I see...there are basically 2 seperate mind sets in regards to archers and competitions should be geared to meet those groups specific goals and desires.

There's Target Archers. There's Bowhunters and than there's archers who like to do both.

I think it would be great to see just 2 basic classes in Barebow Trad 3D.

Not everyone wants to shoot at targets 60yrds. away or further and not everyone wants to be limited to hunting only shots.

One class would be the Bowhunter class where the shooting stakes were set at realistic or typical hunting distances and the archers would use equipment they would normally use while bowhunting.

The second class would be Target Archers where the shooting stakes were set up at more challenging distances and the archers would use whatever they felt they needed to be competitive.

Just a thought.

Ray  

[Scott J. Williams]

Gee Wolf,

     Sounds like the typical 3D shoot to me.

[BLACK WOLF]

Gee Scotty,

Than you're a lucky man to have 3D shoots like that to shoot in  

Ray  

[carlr2s]

Not too many trad archers are comfortable with a 50,60,70,80yd walk-up anymore.

[Arthur P]

Scott, you're exactly right on every point you've brought up. Although, you didn't also point out that  the long distance shots were part of the original vision the folks had back in the 30's when they founded NFAA. In the 30's folks, when most were shooting selfbows or backed with something like bamboo or baleen, LONG before we had recurves backed with linear glass.

The long shots are a TRADITIONAL part of the game. Traditional shooters have no reason to complain about them... unless they want to admit they aren't nearly the shooters our forebears were, even with bows and precision arrows they could never have dreamed of having.

If you want the traditional class to survive, then get out there and SHOOT! Those of us who helped get the traditional class started 20 years ago - NFAA didn't even have a traditional class before then - would like to see it continue.

[Tom A]

I enjoy shooting long distances but not at 3D. An 80 yard max unmarked distance 3D shoot around here would probably destroy most every arrow I have in my quiver. Now if they were large marked distance targets with good backstops it would be a blast. We dont have anything like that around here. But if they did. I would shoot it with no complaints.

[Jacko]

3 weeks ago the  my club ran our annual traditional shoot . Last weekend I attended the 3d aaa national titles [ Ibo affiliated ]and was surprised and pleased to see that word had filtered down to the course setters on some of our target placement and a visiting US pro was impressed . Hopefully he will take these idea's to the states with him .

Traditional shooters can influence other archers and governing bodies in more ways than you think by simply doing things well , putting forward idea's and participating . This is the case if you bowhunt , shoot targets or both . In Australia I reckon we are chipping away at the governing bodies and will come up with compromise that strengthens traditional archery sooner than later , faster if we would spend less time complaining . regards Perry

[Doug Deese]

It looks like we all agree that we would like to have a large organized national/world recognized Traditional archery organization that holds local, state, regional, national and world championship tournaments each year like (IBO,ASA,NFAA,).  

The first thing we need to do is stop eating our own!  Trads (me included) are notorious for staying semi-underground in there small groups.  We also tend to be a little closed minded when it comes to this wonderful sport we love so much and work very hard to pursue.  More and more Folks that normally gun, compound hunt are coming over to our side because they see how fun and challenging it is and it brings the excitement back!

####I would like to get this post back on track and talk about ways that we can come together and start a National Traditional Archery Association that will monitor/regulate tournaments held all over the world.

This sound very difficult and it will be if we cant come together and figure it out as a team.  Its not that hard if we break it down into steps.  

The hardest part will be making the constitution/bylaws for the rules regulations. Classes will be a big thing and the exact guidance for each class will need to be clear.  We will need to include everyone(style,age,sex,etc...)  Some of the large Traditional shoots that are held all over the U.S already have decent rules and regulations set.  We can talk to these folks and use the rules that work from them.  Don't forget about all the fun novelty shoots that could be spread out all over.  They could pay back 50% of the cash to the highest score at the end of the day.  

The small clubs that are already out there throughout the world will just need to follow the rules and publicly promote the shoots.  It will start small and eventually get bigger.  

ASA started in the south east and spread over time to the entire east coast and eventually westward.  IBO was in the  northern areas and spread like wildfire but it took time and a lot of determined people to get/keep it going.  We have everything we need right now to make it happen we just need to use our connections/resources/heads and try to figure this out. We are already doing it we just don't do it together as one.

Sit back and think of how many Trad shoots you and your buddies went to that had the normal tournament range and a ton of other novelty shoots.  Remember the venders and demonstrations and dont forget the food...WOW!!

One of my most treasured trophies is from a canoe shoot in NC.  You are in a canoe with a life jacket on and a guy is paddling you down the river about 15 yards off the bank.  The targets are from the bank to about 20 yards up in the woods.  They have two color coded milk jugs spaces about five yards apart in your path.  You cant draw until you pass the first jug and you must shoot before you pass the second jug.  This was very difficult and that is what made it so popular.  It was a blast!!

If you cant bring up any memories of anything like this you need to get out there and find them.  This sport is way bigger than any of our backyards.

This will take time, effort by everyone mentally/phisically and patience.

You thoughts,,,,,,,,,,,,,Akbearb8

[Jacko]

A couple of years ago some far sighted traditional archers started an Organisation called Traditional Archery Australia , they are not a governing body have no desire to be , the goal is to unify & promote Traditional archery in this country . Part of TAA is Australian Archery Crafters Guild ,The previous 2 Traditional shoots my club has held we have held small but high quality craft shows . Many of us have joined these organisations and continue to support them .

Traditional Archery Australia has some influencial people from our archery scene some with much international competition target archery and national administrative experience .

From my veiw they seem to be struggling a bit with many people veiwing TAA with suspision and the first question out of these peoples mouths is "what are they going to do for me ? " Seems to me everyone will jump on the bandwagon when the ball is rolling . I have been a bit slack with submitting idea's and articles for the newsletters myself .

Seems I had better get off my backside and submitt my idea's to TAA on the definitions of bow divisions , articles for there newsletters ,  standard rules , formats for traditional shoots etc . Once TAA is up and going strong perhaps they will be able to share what  there up to internationally . I will refer some of the commitee of TAA too this thread . regards Perry