Shooting down from stand

[joebuck]

Okay, thanks. Do you have the name of one? I would like to read it, thanks

[Rod Jenkins]

Bending at the waist is needed on up or downhill shots in order to mantain the same alignment and shoulder position as when shooting on level ground in wahts often call the basic T....most shooters acomplish this in either of 2 ways....bending at the waist, then drawing the bow or drawing the bow as you would on level ground, then bending to target.

[joebuck]

Rod, if you bend at the waist, doesn't that make your T bent?...I keep my bow arm and drawing arm in line. My trunk is straight and solid always no matter angle of shot.

For arguement sake, Shooting High with a Traditional Bow ( NO sights)....How does bending forward or tilting at the waist correct this?........Now some have published that shooting uphill/downhill ( with sights) you need to bend at the waist.......but 25 yards and in...I'm sorry guys....We'll agree to disagree.....The deer is dropping everytime....IMO..pick a lower spot and change Nothing..  

[Rod Jenkins]

Originally posted by joebuck:
I keep my bow arm and drawing arm in line. My trunk is straight and solid always no matter angle of shot.

Joe...by all means if your shooting near 100% on game, theres no reason to look at what your doing.

Shoulder position is the reason to bend at the waist...if you drop the bow shoulder for a downhill shot instead of keeping the T by bending, you have effectively changed shoulder position.

 Off cours theres other factors involved in shooting high from a tree stand..I think the biggest reason along with alignment is... people are using the arrow to aim more than they realize...practice all year and get a sight picture than works well on flat groud, then with the different view a target presents when on a angle, aiming needs to be adapted...much like a severly quartering away target normals throw you off, if you use your normal hold.

 Of course some deer drop at release....but not all of them.... aiming low corrects misalignment....but what happens when your deer doesn't duck?


 

[joebuck]

Rod J...you stated.."Joe...by all means if your shooting near 100% on game, theres no reason to look at what your doing"......Look at what I'm doing???  You lost me here Rod? could you explain, please
..

you asked "But what happens if deer doesn't duck"  .....I usually heart shoot him although more hers than hims..    .But I limit myself to 20 yards and in...

[fyrfyter43]

Joe, it's a bit crude, but maybe this drawing can help you envision what everybody is talking about when they advise bending at the waist, and why not doing so would affect the shot.

On the left is the usual T alignment. In the center is the wrong way to shoot from an elevated stand, and the drawing on the right is the correct way of bending at the waist to shot from an elevated stand.

 

[joebuck]

fyrfyter43...IMO it would be extremely hard to pull a hunting weight bow back to anchor in your figure 2. The string torge in your grip would be tremendous...

We have several arguements going on in this thread...
1. Some say tilt over at the waist...on this point I'm arguing...yeah...duh..you have to, to able to shoot down in first place... He's already doing that

2. Some have said "bend" over more at the waist...This point I'm asking "wheres the beef to support this theroy". You change the dynamics of your shot picture with this correction.

3. I'm advising Double whooper to just aim lower. For example My spot is bottom of heart on entry side broadside at 12 yards and I'm 14' high
If deer ducks some...I double lung.....really ducks, I spine.......does nothing, I heart shoot..If I drop bow bow arm or miss calculate short.I miss.


Now for the record..I shoot like fyrfyter43's figure 3 and RobJ figure..I'm not arguing that...I'm arguing bending more at the waist (tilting or over) has nothing to do with correcting the problem of shooting high.

[eagle24]

Originally posted by joebuck:
Now for the record..I shoot like fyrfyter43's figure 3 and RobJ figure..I'm not arguing that...I'm arguing bending more at the waist (tilting or over) has nothing to do with correcting the problem of shooting high.

It has everything to do with it for me.  If I do not keep the geometry (from the waist up) the same as when I shoot from the ground (level) then it changes the shot picture and I shoot high.  I still say there is no substitute for practicing (a lot) from an elevated stand to gain confidence and proficiency.  Why argue about what works and what does'nt?  I'm gonna know what works for me when I shoot from an elevated stand.

[joebuck]

Eagle 24...you said "it has everything to do with me"  Please explain what? Reread my POST...I'm asking how does bending MORE at the waist correct HIGH misses?  I'm not arguing your geometry example.. I AGREE!.....again.....I'm asking how does bending MORE at the waist CORRECT high misses out of a treestand.....

[eagle24]

Originally posted by joebuck:
Eagle 24...you said "it has everything to do with me"  Please explain what? Reread my POST...I'm asking how does bending MORE at the waist correct HIGH misses?  I'm not arguing your geometry example.. I AGREE!.....again.....I'm asking how does bending MORE at the waist CORRECT high misses out of a treestand.....

Sorry, I'm not an expert on archery form.  All I can say is this:  If I do not bend at the waist I shoot high.  I also have no feel for the elevation on my shot.  The sight picture looks totally different if I stand erect and lower my bow arm and I will be aimed higher than I think I am.

[BRITTMAN]

I would also like to add that hunting lower will give you more of the site picture you are used to seeing off the ground . I missed my first trad. shot and I was about 25 foot up but since the I started hunting lower ( 8 to 15 feet depending on cover) and I am 3 for 3 . Thats not saying you wont still miss but I sure helped me alot . One other thing , set up  a 8 foot ladder out in the yard and pratice shooting off of it   , heck I hunt off a 8 foot ladder alot of the time ( learned that trick at a place called pongo wildlife refuge , folks that have hunted there know what I mean ) .  

Mike

[JBiorn]

BRITTMAN, Its not so much that there is more of a site picture than it is a complete difference in your eye'e PERCEPTION of range.

 We would do an exercise in a certain shooting school and they went like this.
 
 Take your hunting buddy along with you to a spot that is elevated over say....a little wooded draw. I say wooded, because not only do we generally set up in wooded areas, but the extra "clutter" of the trees will throw your eye off even more.

 Forgot to mention----bring along a decent rangefinder.

 Pick a random object down there and make a good honest guess about the range, now let your buddy shoot it with the rangefinder. In most cases, you will judge it to be further away than it actually is.(particularly at the 45 degree range)

 Exercise was used for teaching perception to the shooter----You won't be blessed with a spotter all the time. Works like a charm.
 Just keep doing it till you can accurately guesstimate the range and can hit it with your shot right away.

 I'm not disagreeing about form, I am just putting some more info out there.

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by Rod Jenkins:
Bending at the waist is needed on up or downhill shots in order to mantain the same alignment and shoulder position as when shooting on level ground in wahts often call the basic T....most shooters acomplish this in either of 2 ways....bending at the waist, then drawing the bow or drawing the bow as you would on level ground, then bending to target.

Yep Joey...and it don't 'bend' the T...the T is from the waist up!

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
 

Originally posted by joebuck:
Jason...could you please explain and what's your source for "basic archery form for shooting uphill and downhill"

Pretty much any respected basic archery instructional text that's been written in the last hundred years or so.      [/b]

Yep Jason!!!

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by fyrfyter43:
Joe, it's a bit crude, but maybe this drawing can help you envision what everybody is talking about when they advise bending at the waist, and why not doing so would affect the shot.

On the left is the usual T alignment. In the center is the wrong way to shoot from an elevated stand, and the drawing on the right is the correct way of bending at the waist to shot from an elevated stand.

     

Yep...its EASY to drop your bow arm, and your site picture WILL change no matter what aiming method you use.

[Terry Green]

"I'm asking how does bending MORE at the waist correct HIGH misses?"

Keeps you from dropping your bow arm, taking you out of alignment, and changing your site picture.

Canting the bow a little more also helps a few shoot more accurate from a treestand.

[joebuck]

TG welcome back out of the swamps.....I'm through trying to help DoubleWhopper..we have argued so much about our Bending at the waist this much and that much, even my stomach muscles hurt just thinking about all that bending  :D   I think DoubleWhopper has left the building!....Good luck Guys this Rut whatever system ya'll use....Enjoy the woods and your friends

[Terry Green]

Joey....who's arguing?  

I've seen you shoot, and you're a long time trad bowhunter.....you know what we are talking about....side muscles not stomach muscles.   :D

[joebuck]

TG,My side muscles went to grease! conjeld fat!     Some of these posts got me thinking though about over canting the bow for close shots.. D.Dauler shoots a longbow almost horizontal in the stand on 12 and in...I'm going to experiment in my flying trapezee stand different bow cants... Maybe another topic for a log on the fire.

[BobCo 1965]

I agree that you have to keep that consistant basic t no matter what you are shooting at or where it is. I think you can also accomplish this in downward shots (not everyone can) if you drop the forward knee as Byron explains in his book. I have a slight problem with this though and it seems to through me a little off balance.