Holding time question

[Matt E]

Bows are similar to rifles. With rifles you have to factor in lock time, same with bows. This could be the problem with high shots on moving targets. I feel that a hunter will never reach his full potential until a smooth flowing method is aquired.I also think that once a hunter pulls up on a target they must stop for a split second to allow for lock time. If this is not done the shot will invariably be high.Holding a bow on target can lead to problems unless the bow is a target bow.To off set this you need a light weight hunting or olympic style target bow which falls in the 40# range. This only applies to the average archer. Their are a few super strong archers that can hod back heavy bows. I can't.

[Terry Green]

I shoot my bow more like a shot gun than  a rifle.

Compounds with sites are more like rifles.

I'm not 'super strong'....but I dont' need a 40# bow either to off set anything...shoot 60-70 pounds.

Everyone is different...again, gotta find what works for YOU....not what works for someone else.

[cvarcher]

I think the more you hold whern there is no sights on the bowq the more off your shot will be.Instinctive is just that- a smooth fast movement that is usually very accurate.If you start out doing that and then stop to aim you interupt the smooth process and therefore will make mistakes.Ive tried shooting fast and shooting with hold. Shooting fast for me puts more arrows closer to the bull. As for overbowed , if you can properly string and unstring your bow the instep method you are not over bowed.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by cvarcher:
I think the more you hold whern there is no sights on the bowq the more off your shot will be.Instinctive is just that- a smooth fast movement that is usually very accurate.If you start out doing that and then stop to aim you interupt the smooth process and therefore will make mistakes.Ive tried shooting fast and shooting with hold. Shooting fast for me puts more arrows closer to the bull. As for overbowed , if you can properly string and unstring your bow the instep method you are not over bowed.

I suppose that's another one of those things that works for some and doesn't work for others. Growing up, all the archers/bowhunters in my family shot instinctively and held at full draw. It worked well for them and it works well for me when I revert back to instinctive shooting.

Looking back, I can't ever remember hunting with anyone who could kill running rabbits with a bow as well as my dad and grandfather. And when the situation called for it, they could shoot fast and accurately. But their nuts and bolts shooting was slower and more deliberate. Beaing able to do both can only help a bowhunter.

I remember many years ago a gentleman at our archery club and I were discussing wing-shooting. I knew next to nothing about it, and he'd been knocking down upland birds since Moses was a baby.

The conversation turned to shotguns, and he commented that most people confuse .410's as beginner guns, when in reality they're more suited toward experts. Reason being that dropping a bird with a 12 gauge is a lot easier than a .410.

I think fast, instinctive shooting is a lot like that too -- more suited toward experts than beginners.

[Matt E]

My comparison of a bow to a rifle was in the time it takes the thought process to be completed, a trigger to be pulled, a firing pin to drop, powder to ignite and the bullet to leave the barrell,(lock time) is simiiar to an arrow being shot.Leading a moving target can't be figured by ratio to proportion due to several reason the biggest biggest one being the slowing down of the projectile. If your goal is to miss a moving target stop your swing and you will more than likely shoot behind your target. You have to make the target appear to be still by leading it the proper, consistant amount.When you get the lead right , everything is stopped by compensation the same thing happens with a still target.You just don't have to allow for the movement.

[Terry Green]

Ah....gotcha Matt.

[bkupris]

Originally posted by BobCo 1965:
I've always heard that you should should be able to hold your bow at full draw for at least the count of ten. If you can not you are overbowed. I've kind of followed this rule for a while but am really starting to seriously question it.

Any opinions???

To answer the original question.. To be able to hold your bow at full draw for the count of ten (several times in succession) without wobbling, vibrating, or collapsing is a good indication of your "archery fitness" IMHO. It does not in any way mean one should hold that long at anchor to make a good shot. FWIW I think the concept of "lock time" is sound and in my mind it is the moment of total concentration and commitment to the shot. Wherever that comes in your shot cycle doesn't matter.  Best to abort a shot when doubt creeps in at any stage. If one cannot attain "lock time" or commitment to the shot within the period of time they can hold the bow steady IMHO is when they are over bowed.

Only my two cents worth.....

[Matt E]

Any slight movement during the release can ruin your shot.If you crunch the numbers using 28" of draw and assuming you are off your target by 1/8" during the release it calculates to missing your target 5.6" at 10 yards. This is where numbers fail. It is absurd for an average archer to be off this much.It shows me that we are actually are more precise in our shooting than most realize.You can't calculate by numbers alone when forces beyond our comprehension are at play. Striving to be the best that we can requires  us to pull out this unexplainable  atribute which we all have.whatever one can do to keep the bow on target during the release only enhances the result.

[laddy]

To hold or not to hold I believe has as much to do with the bow as it does with type of form that is used.  Then there is also the individual's wiring.  When I draw a light bow or a heavy bow just thinking that I am going to hold, I shake, but if I have to wait for a deer to take a step I do not, even with a heavy longbow.

[laddy]

When I dropped from heavy stuff to more human weights, I developed a short draw flinch.  If you can imagine a bucket brigade with one empty bucket.  that's the one that gets thrown in air because the one getting it expects it to be heavy.  After much work getting myself to be able to hold and aim, I find I am still more accurate and can shoot tighter groups if I don't think about the tempo and just take a draw that matches the speed of the situation and release as soon as the broadhead touches my finger, my fingers hit the under the eyebone and just past the corner of the mouth and my thumb drops behind my jaw.  When I go up in poundage a bit I can still shoot better, but if I keep it up my joints develop problems.  One thing if you have this type of anchor it's best if you don't use your thumb to hang on to your jawbone, that creates a weak release.

[hou5ton]

This information has been helpful .... but I have another question regarding hold time.  I am just getting back to traditional archery after not bow hunting for many years, and I have picked up a nice 62# recurve. I can hold this recurve for 10 seconds, and longer. The issue seems to be holding it STILL. I'm thinking of trading it for a 45# longbow.

Years ago I used to shoot a 75# compound, and when I pulled it back and hit the pocket, I could hold it still ... at least for a while.  I'm not weak (I don't think), but it seems to me that there needs to be something said for holding the bow still, not just holding it back.

Someone please help me out before I trade in a really nice 62# recurve.  :-)   .... or ... try to shoot a 62# recurve when I really need to be shooting something less.

thanks,
larry

[Bowferd]

I normally try to hold until time to release. For exercise I try to hold, only to concentrate and build. At times I draw, set, get ready and let off. At other times I take my old 64# outside and draw as quickly as possible and come upon target and just let go.
Now that I'm done rantin, I ain't worth a#@*(