instictive @ short range but what about long range

[arkiewoodsman]

I have been shooting purely instictive now for a few months and i am pretty accurate at 25 yards but the further the harder. is it possible to shoot 50, 60, 75 yards instictive or do most instictive shooters begin to use some form of aiming point(tip of arrow? ect?? at longer distances. thanks,
 
arkiewoodsman

[Jack Whitmire Jr]

arkiewoodsman

I have noticed the same thing over the past 15 years . If my memory serves me right In Fred Asbells' book he says that not many instinctive archers are real good past 25 yards. I saw a 3 under shooter shooting peices os picket fence slats at 90 yards stood up in an ant hill, he says he shoots gap . Anyhow I think you would be correct in saying that most archers are using a gap or refernece past 25 yards, Just my opinion  

Jack

[Terry Green]

"is it possible to shoot 50, 60, 75 yards instinctive"....yes

"or do most instinctive shooters begin to use some form of aiming point"  don't know that answer, never did a survey.

[BLACK WOLF]

The individual who can shoot instinctively at 50yrds. and beyond accurately and consistantly is a very gifted individual. Even though they are rare...I'm sure they exist.

Could they win archery tournaments similar to the American Round at those distance...not likely...when compared to archers who consciously aim by useing their arrow tip by placing it on the target as an archer with a sight would similarly do.

Ray  

[TSP]

I'm not an expert in instinctive shooting (only 23 years with it...just a beginner) and I'm not sure anyone really is, but I do think MOST instinctive shooters would agree that its a close range style.  Yes, its possible to develop some consistency at longer ranges, but its not the best method for what long range bow shooting is really geared to (at least in modern times)...which is target shooting.  And target shooting seeks precision...which is better suited to aiming with artificial assistance... sights.

Those who choose the instinctive style over other methods might do so because of its connection to the romantic side of archery (what some might think of as traditional archery).  Or maybe they choose it because its the archery style closest to what they are used to for an athletic interests ...honing an athletic ability...hand-eye coordination...throwing a ball, shooting a hoop, hitting the mark...that maximizes the personnal/self-reliant aspect and minimizes the artificial aspect.  Except to understand and/or teach the concepts of 'instinctive' one doesn't need, or even want, to develop formal theories, mathematical calculations, or artificial help in undertaking it.  Its more gutteral in nature and practice, something that calculating arrow trajectories or building sight pictures based on gapping definately cannot claim to be.

Sometimes we call athletes 'natural' or 'gifted' because they exhibit the ability to practice their sport without obvious effort or difficulty.  Fluent, effective and entertaining to both participants and observers.  A large part of the "charm" of athletics is the exultation and satisfaction one derives from physically executing those runs, throws, jumps and catches.  Instinctive shooting is sort of the archery equivalent of that aspect of athletics.  Except for a simple bow and a simple arrow the balance of the recipe is really just...you.  No artificials.  No 'concious' calculations.  Just your innate ability, consistent form and physical execution honed through practiced repetition.  Basic, satisfying, and yes potentially  frustrating.  But no pain no gain, right?

I like instinctive shooting, and I like it BECAUSE its a close range endeavor.  It fits my hunting interests (to challenge myself to get close, minimizing wounding potential) and for me its more fun (like sports) to rely on innate coordination than artificial aids or calculated methodology.  Some prefer the latter.  Fine.  Variety is what makes the world an interesting place.

I don't know if this helped at all with answering your question, but It sure makes me want to go out and shoot my bow...instinctively.  You?

[BLACK WOLF]

Totally agree with ya TSP.

Ray  

[Dirty Bill]

It's possible to shoot at 60 yards if you practice doing it.You can also get good groups doing it.Instinctive is just using what you have learned previously.

Before I went on an antelope hunt,I practiced 60 yards and on in.

I wouldn't shoot an animal that far,but an antelope at 28 yards sure looked sweet. It was tasty too..      

[eggomaniac]

remember when you were a kid and your friends used to see who could hit a bottle or stick in the lake with rocks? nobody used sites, you just threw at it. If it was aways out, after 20 throws someone would hit it, though some kids seemed to always be the first to hit it.
What about bowlers and majot league pitchers? They don't use sites, and they don't get many guttler balls or wild pitches. Every once in awhile someone even bowls a perfect game or pitches a no hitter. I would call that instinctive aiming!
I hope Brent Favre wasn't using instictive aiming in OT today!? I was rooting for the old guy in that one.

[Terry Green]

I dont think its all just 'gifted'....it takes commitment whether one is gifted or not.

All depends on how bad you want it.  Don't let anyone tell you that you can't.

[longbowben]

I shoot three under ,I shoot instinctve out to 30 yards at that yardage i am point on.I dont know how you can shoot instinctve after point on.as rod jenkins said at a certin distance you are point on after that your holding over.

[eggomaniac]

(lbm) Do you mean you have the arrow point on the target at 30 yards? That sounds like gap shooting, 'not that there's anything wrong with it' (Seinfeld)
Instictive shooters will do the same thing over '30 yards', as at any other distance; look only at a point on the target, not the arrow point. They let their brain, skill and experience adjust the bow aim subconsciously. It's fun!
(If you want to know how to aim your point over 30 yards, just put a tape measure above the target at 40 yards and find out how many inches above you are aiming when you hit the bull.)

[BLACK WOLF]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
I dont think its all just 'gifted'....it takes commitment whether one is gifted or not.

All depends on how bad you want it.  Don't let anyone tell you that you can't.

I agree. A gift not used will never see it's full potential...just as someone who may be less gifted will never see what they are capable of if they never try...but the fact is...we all can't be Michael Jordans, Tiger Woods or Howard Hills...at some point we need to be realistic about our expectations.

Ray  

[Terry Green]

"...we all can't be Michael Jordans, Tiger Woods or Howard Hills"

And to that I'd have to say.....and just why not?

One will never know if he or she is told they "can't be" to the point where they believe it.

We can sure as heck try to be as good as those mentioned above, and still reach our full potential, and be very successfull. You can still play the game well and not have to be the MVP.

Reminds me of one of my daughters friends Dads comment to his own daughter when he saw my 4 yeard old daughter turning cartwheels....She stood up to join my daughter and he said...."You can't do it so don't even try".  She sat back down with a sad look on her face.  Too bad someone told her she couldn't.

[McDave]

I agree with your sentiments, Terry, but I still think there is a benefit in being realistic.

As an analogy, Tiger Woods uses a type of golf club that allows him to curve the golf ball left or right or put more or less backspin on it to suit the situation.  I use a golf club that has a wide sweet spot so when I miss-hit the ball, which is most of the time, it is more likely to go in the general direction I want it to.  I tried using a pro golf club and unless I hit the ball perfectly, it was a disasterous shot.

Carrying that analogy to archery, are there things that the average archer can do to improve his skills that the expert archer wouldn't bother with?  For example, using gap at distances greater than 30 yards?

[BLACK WOLF]

If anyone is reading into what I'm saying as "You can't do it so don't even try"...you're not getting it at all. You're reading way to much into what I'm saying.

It would be like me twisting your words and believeing that your saying EVERYONE can be as good as Howard Hill if they just try. If you're not...you must not be trying hard enough...and I don't believe that is at all what you are trying to say....or am I wrong?

Ray  

[Terry Green]

Sorry Ray.....I have a major character flaw....I'm just overly positive.  No offense meant, nor did I mean to twist anyones words.

Take care,.......

[longbowben]

I do not gap shoot ,i stair at the bull, draw anchor shoot.no hold on anchor.

[BLACK WOLF]

Terry,

I surely wouldn't go as far as to say it's a character flaw. I much rather have more guys like you cheerleading archers on to try harder than the other option. Heck...most guys who can witness you shoot probably will get more inspired that way than by anything you could say.

Ray  

[BLACK WOLF]

Some archers, who shoot instinctively past their point on distance, will pick a spot above the target to focus on...while others will just rely on proprioception in relationship to the sight picture they had before they drew their bow.

Ray  

[brettlandon]

I am an instinctive shooter by necessity.  Five years ago I made my first selfbow (these are hardly ever center-shot) and had to learn instinctive technique from trial and error.  I had previously used the gap method and enjoyed William Tell(ing) other archers especially compound shooters.  Fighting a learned technique to create new skills was the most frustrating thing I ever did.  I even attempted making a center-shot selfbow.
 Eventually it comes to you, much like throwing a baseball, football, ect.  My range is limited to 35 yards and I only recover my former pinpoint precision when I am in practice and very focused.  I have found that in hunting situations where the "targets" may move without warning, instinctive shooting is far more effective.  Either is effective for those shooting center-shot bows, but once you have to shoot "around" the handle instead of "through" it, then you have to learn instinctive shooting.