Cock Vane In...

[NDTerminator]

Got part way through MOTBB Volume II yesterday, and was surprised to see several of the featured archers do at least some shooting with the cock vane in with three feathers/vanes fletched @ 120 degrees.

The explanation that paradox clears the cock vane, in retrospect makes sense. I was particularly fascinated when Fred Eichler advised that with his set up he can shoot vanes off the shelf with no adverse affect on his accuracy, so being carries at least one vane fletched arrow when hunting in wet conditions.

I had to try this for myself.  As it was 20 below yesterday, I did some testing in the basement.  

I was surprised to find that using my bows set up to shoot vanes off a T-300 rest, turning the cock vane in didn't affect the shot, and that there was no apparent contact.  I tried 4 different bows and had no problem with any of them.

I was even more surprised to discover that I was able to successfully shoot vanes off the shelf of my CM H56!

Of course, this is going to require testing at longer distances outdoors, but if I could shoot vanes off the shelf, I really could have the best of both worlds!

Anyone else have any experience shooting cock vane in/vanes off the shelf?...

[McDave]

No experience with plastic vanes, but as far as feathers go, in the instinctive shooting class taught by Fred Asbell and Ken Beck, they teach that the orientation of the arrow doesn't matter.  They teach the students to nock the arrow without looking at it, as an aid to instinctive shooting and hunting.  The feathers will fold in when the arrow is shot and won't affect the arrow flight.  What does affect the arrow flight is if the quill, or the stiffer part of the feathers right next to the quill, contacts the bow.  To avoid this, Ken Beck recommends trimming the fletches of one arrow down to maybe 1/8" and marking the edges with lipstick or something that will make a mark on the bow if there is any contact.  If there is, then rotate the nock until there is no more contact with the quill and the bow.

I suppose if you were into extreme accuracy, you would probably want to orient all your arrows the same when you shot them, along with a bunch of other things we normally don't do in tuning a hunting bow.  But for normal trad hunting ranges of up to 30 yards, and assuming an inch or so one way or the other is as good as a bullseye, I don't think it matters.

[NDTerminator]

Did some shooting at 15 yards yesterday (didn't have time to run the snowblower and clean out the remaining 35 yards of my range).

I was absolutely floored to find that not only was I able to shoot vanes successfully cock in, but the arrow flight was even better than with it out.  Clearly, I must be getting at least some contact with the lower vane, even off the T-300 rest.

Not only that, but by shooting a vane fletched arrrow with the cock in off the shelf with my H56, I was getting better flight and more consistent accuracy than I ever experienced with that bow before using feathers and the cock out!

Almost doesn't need to be said, but feather fletched arrows shot like champs cock vane in.

For sure something is afoot here, and begs for more experimentation.  Great, just what I need.  More bow shooting...    :D

[NDTerminator]

Update.

Shooting feathers in/out doesn't seem to make an appreciable difference either off the shelf or from an elevated rest.  If anything, cock in is a shade better.  Nice to know this, can see the knowledge coming in handy while hunting.  Also no need other than esthetic, to continue to fletch a contrasting colored cock feather.

Some of my bows shoot vanes well cock in off the shelf and some don't.  My little H56 really seems to like it.  Can go either way off an elevated rest with no noticable affect on flight or POI...

[csbullseye]

Jack Howard recommended shooting cock feather down. He did a lot of testing with a shooting machine. I tried it and liked the results. Thats how I now shoot my arrows.

[adirondack46r]

This is good news. I have always had my arrows fletched with all 3 fletches the same color. I just didn't like the look of the different colored cock feather. Took me a little longer to get it on the string and let 'er fly, but now I can cut a second or two out of my shot sequence.

[Firstlight]

Shooting feathers I ignore the cock feather as I don't see a difference.

But reading jack howard said cock down, I'll have to try that as I usually shoot a gamemaster/jet made the last few years he made bows.

By far my favorite and best shooting bow.

[BodarkOkie]

In or out...not much difference.  I prefer the cock feather in.  As Jack Howard said, I find that it stabilizes the arrow just a fraction quicker.  An advantage when shooting through an opening in brush.

But I've never seen the advantage of vanes over feathers, even when it's raining.  As the old-timer said, "If plastic worked better than feathers, God would have made plastic turkeys."
JMHO

[treenate]

I just started shooting cock feather in and for me it makes a huge difference.  I think it might have something to with a bad release.  I was able to cut my groups in half just by turning the cock feather in.  The arrow flight is a lot straighter with no fishtailing.  Man, I can't believe what a difference it has made for me!