Snapshooting really a bad thing

[Three Arrows]

Terry, you are absolutely right about target panic and snapshooting.  Target panic creeps up on a lot of people both the holders and non-holders.  I have had target panic and continue to battle it every day I shoot a bow.  It started very subtle like: not all the way to my prefered anchor, a little quicker than usual draw, the brick wall at the face...  that is all from the more fluid style.  In holding, it is: the violent tremors before release, not letting the string go, sudden pluck and chuck.  There are drawbacks and shooting diseases out there for each style that needs to be recognized.  There are very good fixes for all these things in each style of shooting.  Lots of threads on this issue also.  While there are posts galore on this issue, sometimes it is good to get "refreshed opinions" and ideas from longtime shooters like Terry Green and Rod Jenkins and others.  I am grateful for the information I have picked up and used.

[SHOOTO8S]

I'll repost what I had on my mind...as soon as I can get my vid link to work !      :D    


 Well, I cant seem to get my link working.....the term and thought of holding is IMHO, whats holding a lot of shooters from ever becoming consistant shots. I take up to 12 seconds to shoot an arrow, but my shot and what a snapshooter is doing is exactly the same..we both never stop pulling!  Trying to become static (holder) is the kiss of death IMO to becoming a good shot!

[scriv]

I have experienced both worlds in regards to style.  I have held shots until they "feel" right and I have come to full draw, hit anchor and released in a seemingly fluid motion with good results.  My focus is on my target and when I feel that I am "burning a hole through it" the shot is on it's way.  I have noticed that I tend to hold a bit if it's over 20 yards though.

[Terry Green]

Scriv,

I usually draw a bit slower on longer shots....and I also have held at full draw on game as it moved.

[Terry Green]

Uh Oh....I just seen Rod post...you gotta watch him...he's sneaky...and done baited us up!

BTW...Rod's shot is the perfect example of holding at anchor while maintaining rearward energy.  No collapse or creep...just steady rearward pressure from back tension that released on the release.

[SHOOTO8S]

Terry, actually I was planning to point out exactly how much my shot( couldn't get my vid link to work), along with Olympic archers, was exactly what a good snapshooter was doing...we all never HOLD, but continue the rearward movement..although at a much different rate of speed   :D

[NDTerminator]

I believe this is a "walk before you run" question.

Without having the basics of form, alignment, back pressure, and follow through hard wired into the shoulder mounted computer, no one can be an accurate & consistent shot with a Trad bow no matter the method.

Unlike more deliberate methods, snap shooting requires all these elements be orchestrated and performed perfectly in a second or so.  

Target Panic is a psychological condition, yes, but it's directly related to the act of shooting.  You can't experience it OR beat it unless you shoot.

Seems to me that Target Panic is directly related to putting oneself under pressure to complete the shot quickly or make a perfect shot.  The more relaxed you can shoot, the less likely it will happen.

The only time I experienced it was in my hardcore 3D days when I shot the Unlimited Class, where dropping just a couple points took one out of the top 3.  What helped me beat it was taking a break from all 3D/competition and just shooting for fun/stumping.

So being, I think in regard to Trad snap shooting can lead to TP when the archer 1., doesn't first have his basics firmly in place, and 2., puts himself under pressure to execute that FAST SHOT....

[tjjsidekick]

Excellent post Scott Williams.
Scout 52, being that you're new to trad, I would imagine that the hold at anchor method would probably be a better place to start because it allows you isolate and focus on the fundamental ellements that Scott referred to - back tension, alignment, force on the bow towards the target, concsistent draw length,etc. Once that's ingrained, you can definately speed up the shot cycle and "snap" shoot. If things start going south with the "snap" shoot, you can always go back to the basics of holding to find the specific reason. It would be intersting to find out if the greats such as Howard Hill and Fred Bear always shot the way that we see in the clips on this sight, or if they went through a process of initially holding on target and verifiying that all the ingredients of a good shot were present....

[Scott J. Williams]

Thanks tjjsidekick,

     I may have left it out, but I beleive that I did mention the positive pull through.  True enough, target panic, is a mental issue.  It is brought about by phyiscal actions, or incorrect actions.

     Terry, as usual you are correct about long holding, however let us not forget that it will can happend when the shot breaks down due to loss of back tension, positive pull through, or failure to push on the bow. Let's not forget shooting too heavy in draw weight.

      I am not pushing my method of shooting, however it has allowed for a quick and accurate shot when the game dictates it.  Let us not forget one of the tenets of Asbell, that is if you want to slow your shot, draw slower, the reverse is true also.  You can still loose the arrow once you hit anchor if you are predisposed to do so.

      I practice this an awful lot, due to having to shoot sometimes when many sets of eyes are watching. You may have to make a slow controlled draw under those situation.  I am not prepared to let an opportunity go by without taking a good shot.  

      I did not wish to step on anyone's toes by suggesting that nobody can be a good snap shooter.  If I were to say that, it would be totally incorrect.  I am not one of those gifted people, for better or for worst, and I tip my hat to them.

      When I examine good snap shooters, several things are always present.  The shot is consistant, in other words they always hit whatever their anchor is, they always fully draw the bow, and they always stay with the shot, meaning they never take their concentration off the spot, and they don't drop their bow arm.

       If seems interesting that those are the same traits exhibited by everyone else whos shoots a bow well.

     
       This has been a good thread, it has addressed an issue that is responsible for a lot of missunderstanding, and frustration for the beginner as well as the veteran.  Kudos to each and everyone!

[scriv]

As if all of this hasn't been enough I thought of something else that I do.  If I come to full draw and the shot doesn't "feel" right I let off and inch or so and then return to finish the shot.  Crazy huh?  Works for me though.  Terry, I draw slower on long shots too.  I suspect you are "aiming" before you begin your draw.

[Terry Green]

Yes, I aim - draw - anchor - release....as I'm sure it is with most snap shooters.

Just as most who draw - anchor - aim - release tend to hold a bit.

[adirondack46r]

I love this topic because for me it's more about how the mind works than how the body works. I have been shooting about 3 years now and until 6 months ago I always released as soon as (and often before) I hit my anchor point. And I was shooting pretty good.

After posting a video of my form and receiving alot of good feedback, I decided to "retool" my form, drawing to achor and spending a second or two or three acquiring my target and then releasing. Let me tell you, things got MUCH worse than I thought possible and I was very tempted to go back to my previous style. But I stuck with it. Several months into the process, something changed.

Suddenly, the bow that I used to think was a bit heavy for me was fully under my control. I became much more aware of my anchor point, back tension and alignment. Once or twice each shooting session I was shooting 3" groups at 20 yards, which was unheard for me previously. Now I am shooting better than I ever have.

Here's what I think happened.

1. I was never really getting my back fully into the shot. Now, when I come to full draw and anchor, I can feel it. It's there and there's no mistaking it.

2. My release used to be more of a conscious "let go". And now I try to initiate the release by using the back while at full draw.

3. Drawing and holding conditioned my shooting muscles in a way that a quicker release did not.

But I think Terry said it earlier, it's all about alignment. When I have accuracy problems I look first at alignment and particularly bow arm behavior before anything else. 1 second hold or 10 second hold - doesn't matter if you are lined up poorly or your bow arm collapses at release. In fact I can have the crappiest release but if I have good alignment and a steady bow arm, the impact on accuracy is minimized.

This is only my experience and I see lots of valid points above from both perspectives.

[NDTerminator]

Very good point in regard to "retooling" form, Adirondack.

Looking back, my form/style went through four distinct phases over 2 years as it evolved to the smooth instinct-gap method that I'm very happy with.

I think any of the three other methods (actually two, as the Jenkins Gap Method I tried was very successful almost from the first arrow, I just decided it was a touch too rigid for me) would have worked, even my disasterous attempt at "Fred Bear Instinctive", had I the basics of form & the shot down properly at that time I tried them...

[Aaron Proffitt 2]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
Yes, I aim - draw - anchor - release....as I'm sure it is with most snap shooters.

Just as most who draw - anchor - aim - release tend to hold a bit.

Same here,Terry.I generally have a spot picked and am focused on it before I really put tension to the string.Once that happens,the shot is immenient.Kinda like putting tension to a trigger.
In any case,I liked how the author of this thread began by saying nothing that indicated he was unhappy with the quality,and yet folks were telling him what he was doing wrong.
Well,indeed your way is one way to shoot a bow.But gospel,it ain't.

[mike g]

I whole hardidly agree with Terry concerning the terms Target Panic and Snap shootin are two differant things all together....
    And Terry and I have had discusions regarding Snap shootin and The Swing draw method....
    Howard Hill used the swing draw method, some call it Snap shootin....
    To me the two are differant animals, In my opinon snap shooters do not do anything right as far as form, and Swing draw shooters do everything right they just do it fast, so people think they are snap shootin....
    And of course the above is my opinon and who the heck am I....