Why is facewalking frowned upon?

[habs]

I've heard this is illegal at some shoots.  Why? I can't believe this technique hasn't been used for centuries by all people of the bow.

[deermaster1]

the same reason string walking is restricted to some classes.  it can be more accurate when copared to other aiming methods.....dosnt really make sense to me.

[Diamond Paul]

People consider it the same as using a sight, and they don't want to compete against people who have an inherently more accurate way to shoot (for targets only, IMHO).  It's the same reason that compound shooters with long stabilizers, scopes, and back tension releases shoot in a separate class: no bowhunter class shooter can possibly compete with them, the equipment is too much of an advantage.  Personally, I don't care if a guy string walks, gaps, etc., I just shoot tournaments (very rarely anymore) to improve my own personal shooting.  I'm not there to beat anyone anymore.  I wish they didn't even give trophies, but that's my own personal opinion.  Paul.

[BLACK WOLF]

It does make aiming easier because the archer trains themselves to know what to do to place the arrow tip on the target at various distances.

I personally think it's stupid to disqualify it in tournaments. It's barebow...so what if an archer has learned to use the arrow almost exactly like a sight.

It has it's pros and cons just like any aiming techinique.

We all have the option of picking our own aiming techinique for a particular goals. No one is forced to choose one way or the other.

If an archer wants to make aiming easier...face walking, string walking and point of aim may just be your ticket.

Ray  

[habs]

Is there any evidence that facewalking was not used by ancient archers?  It seems so basic to know that as you lower your anchor point, your point of impact goes up.

This had to have been discussed around the campfire or at the tavern.

[NDTerminator]

I don't frown on string walking or face walking, I figure to each his own. I don't shoot tournaments competitively anymore, but if I did I don't think I would care much if the next guy shot those methods.  Seems to me like taking the long way around the barn, though.

[Chris Wilson]

With a well practiced individual, face walking and string walking can be deadly accurate methods of shooting.  As far as it not being allowed in most traditional tournaments, most feel it's too much like using a sight.  I'm with black wolf on it being disqualified in most trad tournaments though.  It's just another form of barebow shooting to me as well.  Folks who use that method of aiming use the same basic equipment I do, a bow and an arrow.  They just use it in a different manner.

[Mushroom]

A friend of mine went to 3D Worlds last year and he said that string walking was used by pretty much everyone in Europe.  I wonder how we in North America decided that this is bad and should not be allowed in Competitive Shooting?

[Chris Wilson]

It depends on the competition and/or the organization as to whether or not it's allowed.  The IBO allows string walking and face walking in the recurve unaided class but not in the traditional or longbow classes.  At most of the bigger traditional only shoots, it's pretty much frowned upon.
 

I wonder how we in North America decided that this is bad and should not be allowed in Competitive Shooting?

Just a guess but someone, some where, at some point in time probably got tired of getting their rear end beat, on a regular basis, and deemed string walking and face walking evil and untraditional, comparing it to using a sight on a compound.  A decent portion of the traditional community seems to have issues with forms of shooting that encompass any conscious form of aiming.  I've even taken flack in the past for using gap and point of aim methods of shooting.  If it isn't "instinctive", it's not traditonal.  I've had folks tell me that to my face during a shoot.  I typically just smile and wish them a good day.

[Diamond Paul]

Competition usually breeds resentment from those who aren't competitive!  LOL!

[R H Clark]

Hey,if you are shooting better than me you must be cheating.  

[BLACK WOLF]

R H Clark,

Sad but true that some people actually believe that. For some reason, some people think it's an unfair advantage in competition.

As far as I'm concerned...anyone can learn it if they want to...nothing unfair about that.

Ray  

[R H Clark]

Ray,
I feel the same way.Whenever I see someone who is a great shot,I'll try to learn everything I can from them.Some of it might work for me,some not,but at least I'm willing to give it a try.

[TSP]

I see facewalking and stringwalking as ingenious ways to turn the tip of your arrow into a standard sight, not unlike a sight pin, by calculating where the nock end of the arrow needs to be in order for the arrow to hit the target when the arrow tip is held dead-on the target.  Pretty clever really, but complicated relative to using a pin sight or even to gap shooting and certainly alot more complicated than instinctive shooting.  

String and face walking are basically just ways to use a sight without screwing one to your bow.  If as a no-sight shooter you don't mind shooting in competitions against sight shooters then the two 'walking' disciplines probably won't bother you much.  But if its a real 'competition' then it doesn't seem either logical or fair to do that.  Its not JUST the man behind the bow (a popular yet illogical saying)...otherwise there wouldn't be any equipment-based classes.  And when's the last time you saw a competitive shoot with only one equipment class?

I'd rather compete on an apples-to-apples basis...instinctive vs. instinctive; sighted vs. sighted; straightlimbed bows with wood arrows vs. the same/similar; high performance bows with lightweight carbons vs. the same/similar; etc. etc.  When it comes to competitions it simply makes sense to group gear and styles into their own respective classes.  If those that argue against such simple logic do so based on the theory that 'the equipment doesn't really matter', don't be upset if at your next 3-D shoot you get thoroughly outpointed by a beginner on his first time out with his new decked-out compound.  All's fair in love,  equipment and shooting styles, right?    

[George D. Stout]

It's why there were classes in the NFAA.  People will find more accurate ways to shoot without a sight attached to the bow.  String walking and face walking are just another way of using a sighting system;  nearly as accurate with the point of the arrow being the pin.

And you wonder why attendance is not what it used to be in competitive shoots.  We used to call them sandbaggers or even cheaters who would do whatever it took to stretch the rules to suit themselves.

You don't have to exclude it, but call it what it is....using a sighting device.  And no....not everyone uses the arrow for a sighting device.
The ones that are all for it and think it's just barebow, are the ones who are looking for the win and not the journey to the win.  Stringwalking or facewalking is as much like barebow as 4x12 scope against a rifle with no sights at all.  Oh yeah....the can use the barrel for a pin 8^).

Those who were around for the advancement of field archery in the 50's and 60's  already know why there is a separation.

[R H Clark]

George
I may change my mind when I have gained your years of perspective.I really mean that with the most respect.

Right now,I don't know about streatching the rules.You either play by them or not.

I'm out to win.I'm going to use everything I can to my advantage without breaking the rules.

If someone else is out for journey,why should they complain about anything that is within the rules if winning is not their goal.

I understand why face and string walking is illegal.I guess your post spoke more to me about an attitude I see among trad archers more than just the facewalking issue.

Every sport in the world that is played,people play to win.They use every advantage within the rules.They use every advancement in equipment available.I see an attitude in trad archery that would be akin to a guy complaining because he didn't do well at the US Open, when he was using a set of 100 year old clubs.

If he wants to play golf with the 100 year old clubs that is great.I just don't think he should complain about losing or try to make everyone else play with 100 year old clubs.

[Chris Wilson]

We used to call them sandbaggers or even cheaters who would do whatever it took to stretch the rules to suit themselves.

Well, that proves my guess in my earlier post was
correct.

   

You don't have to exclude it, but call it what it is....using a sighting device. And no....not everyone uses the arrow for a sighting device.  The ones that are all for it and think it's just barebow, are the ones who are looking for the win and not the journey to the win.

:rolleyes:    Oh please, just because someone's not going down the same path you are doesn't mean they're on any less of a journey than you.

   

Stringwalking or facewalking is as much like barebow as 4x12 scope against a rifle with no sights at all.

Not a very good comparison, George.  It's more like giving two shooters the same scoped rifle and one shooter choosing to ignore the scope and shoot by feel instead.  They both have the same physical equipment, but one chooses to use it differently.

[George D. Stout]

Chris.... Firsts of all, it's not about me...I did my competitive shooting before your were born...I think *^).  I'm pretty old. It's about what's fair to others.

Do you suggest that the playing field is level with you shooting against a newcomer to the sport, who does not use the systems that you do?  Or that they should be able to hit just as well as you do without the arrow point reference?

Frankly, it does make a big difference whether one string walks/face walks/ gaps or whatever.  If it didn't make it easier, few would go to the trouble of doing it.  It actually takes a lot of time to perfect.  If it wasn't an issue, it would be allowed in shoots as well.  I suppose they are boneheads because they don't see it your way?   Maybe?

What I do see now is the reason I got away from it in the early 1980's.....the winning got in the way of the shooting.  And yes, I competed against string walkers and did very well....but the good ones always beat the ones that didn't string walk.  Yeah, that was our bad because we didn't want to conform to using a sight.  Go figure.

[Mushroom]

Do you suggest that the playing field is level with you shooting against a newcomer to the sport, who does not use the systems that you do? Or that they should be able to hit just as well as you do without the arrow point reference?
 

Now I'm new to Trad archery and instinctive shooting.  This does not place me on a level playing field as more experienced instinctive shooters.  Only experience and learning from those who shoot better than me will even the playing field.  If string walking were legal then more people would be apt to learn.

Saying this I also believe a person should try to learn more than just one method of aiming.

[Chris Wilson]

Chris.... Firsts of all, it's not about me...I did my competitive shooting before your were born...I think *^).

Maybe, George.  I'm getting up there but I've still got a ways to go .            

     

Do you suggest that the playing field is level with you shooting against a newcomer to the sport, who does not use the systems that you do? Or that they should be able to hit just as well as you do without the arrow point reference?

I expect any individual who chooses to compete at a certain level to choose the shooting style that they feel allows them to do their best and be competetive; as long as it falls within the rules of the competition. If an individual chooses to shooting "instinctively" in a competition that allows other shooting styles, that's their choice but I don't want hear any complaints.  Just like I don't want to hear any complaints from someone who gets disqualified for face walking in a competition when they know it's not allowed.

   

Frankly, it does make a big difference whether one string walks/face walks/ gaps or whatever. If it didn't make it easier, few would go to the trouble of doing it. It actually takes a lot of time to perfect. If it wasn't an issue, it would be allowed in shoots as well. I suppose they are boneheads because they don't see it your way? Maybe?

Of course anyone that doesn't see it my way is a bonehead              .   Anyway, it does take a lot of time to perfect any aiming method; instinctive included, and just because someone uses a concious form of aiming doesn't mean they're going to automatically become a world class shooter.  It's a good base to build on, but you've still got to put in the time and work to make it all come together.  Even then, it's not for everyone.

     

What I do see now is the reason I got away from it in the early 1980's.....the winning got in the way of the shooting.

If one doesn't go into a competition with the desire to win, then why even compete?  You make it seem like the drive to win is such an evil thing or maybe I'm just reading it wrong.  Now, I've seen and heard of folks doing some down right nasty things in their quest to win, but as long as an individual plays within the rules of a competition, why is it such a bad thing to want to win?