Instinctive, or aiming for hunting

[Blue Moose]

Dang, I posted before I read Chris' post. At least a few of us are on the same page here:).

TM

[BLACK WOLF]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
 

Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
  I am strictly an instinctive shooter with trad bows, and I wonder if I will see any noticeable difference between the DAS and a good wood bow with this style of shooting?  Thanks, Paul Pickering.

I can see from a previous post that you do use the term      [/b]

Yea...I sometimes I think he often confuses himself  

Instinctive Aiming does exsist...just as I, Terry and many others have been describing for years  

Ray  

[Diamond Paul]

Well, I have to use terms that are readily used and understood.  If I said I used a system that involved lots of shooting at different distances so that my mind developed a computer printout of the proper sight picture at each distance, would that make it better for you?  That's what instinctive shooting really is, but the standard terminology is much quicker to type and say.  Speaking of confused, have you ever heard the one about the pot calling the kettle black. . . ?

[BLACK WOLF]

Sure...most everyone knows that song...and is there something specific you want to say Paul?

"If I said I used a system that involved lots of shooting at different distances so that my mind developed a computer printout of the proper sight picture at each distance, would that make it better for you?"

No...because you are missing some key factors that will either make it instinctive or a just any one of the other aiming techiniques.

There's more to it than what you're explaining, which is obvious why you have missed the boat.

Ray  

[Diamond Paul]

Ray, please don't ever personally address me or respond to me directly ever again. I would like to be able to remain a member here.  Direct enough? Thanks, Paul.

[TonyW]

When I was about twenty and bought my first bow, I had no mentors. The guy at Bart's Sport World gave no advice, other than setting my nock on a brand new string and selecting my arrows.
Then I read some archery books, began to shoot at makeshift targets, and kinda settled in to a groove. I didn't use sights because nobody showed me how, so I started to shoot where I looked.
I used the bow off and on during the 70s, and didn't pick it up again until a few years ago. Then I read forums like this, tried a few tips, and mainly shot and shot and shot arrows until I started hitting what I looked at.
I discovered that I could switch from a 48 amo bow to a 60 amo, a 60 pound draw to a 50, and as long as I used matching arrows, I could hit where I looked with all of them.
The instinctive shooting seems to stay with the shooter, and once you shoot a couple of arrows from a new bow, you automatically adjust to hit what you are looking at.
It is hard to describe this in writing, it just clicks when you get ready to shoot. When your mind wanders, so does the arrow.
What I like about this forum is the polite discussion of this art.

[BLACK WOLF]

Paul,

Me addressing you directly isn't going to get your membership revoked...that would be silly      

If you want me to stop addressing you...than stop going around saying there's no such thing as instinctive aiming. If you're the one saying it...you're the one I and a few others are gonna address.

Comments like yours only cause confusion and creates controversy...when there's no need for either one.

Most of us who have been shooting instinctively...knows it exsists...and knows what it means when someone uses that word to desrcibe an aiming techinique....just as when someone describes a very attractive person as 'hot'        Many of us will be more than happy to explain it to you. If you're not sure what it means...just ask.

Ray    

[Diamond Paul]

Ray, I asked you politely not to address me directly.  Please, I know it's hard for you to do this, but be a man and respect my request.  I've seen enough of your posts on the other site to know that you enjoy antagonizing people.  Unless you wish to do that face to face, please don't do it at all.  Thanks, Paul.

[Aaron Proffitt]

Thread took a weird turn...

[Diamond Paul]

Yes, and for my part, I apologize.  Paul.

[BLACK WOLF]

Paul,

I don't enjoy antagonizing people. I try to avoid it unless they start it first. So before you make assumptions about me...it would be best you ask first...and I would have no problem discussing this with you face to face  

Ray  

[BLACK WOLF]

zinndl,

Instinctive Aiming has many of it's advantages in hunting situations...when a hunter doesn't have time to conscouisly analize distance and/or analize their aiming techinique...which is why many bowhunters believe it to be a superior aiming techinique for hunting.

But in my personal opinion...Gap and Split Vision rank pretty high up there as effective aiming techiniques for hunting also...maybe not so much for hunting pheasants but definitely deer.

Some archers even use String and Face Walking to hunt with and can make it very effective.

It really boils done to mastering your techinique. The more you master it...the more it can become instinctive like and the quicker you can execute a shot.

If speed and accuracy is your primary goal when targets are close...I would highly recommend instinctive aiming.

Ray  

[BLACK WOLF]

There is NOTHING really mystical about aiming Instinctively...unless we are discussing how it feels. Any part of it's techinique can be explained scientifically.

With that being said...there's nothing wrong with having it feel magical or mystical when an archer makes a great shot...no matter what aiming techinique an archer is using.

Ray  

[Whump]

Whump Sez: Zinndl are your arrows grouping high--low or all over the place? If you are just shooting over everything which is a common problem with people learning to shoot instinctive on close targets---back up until your arrows are falling into the center spot. This will give your minds eye a place to start. Then you can move forward or backward and shoot some more. If you are constantly changing distance it is harder for you to visualize the arc of the arrow going to the target and you will be on a  mission that will never end. I have a friend that can shoot in almost complete darkness and hit targets with uncanny accuracy , instinctive shooting does exist and can be done.     Hunt safe.

[BLACK WOLF]

Good advice, Whump!

Ray  

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
 I am strictly an instinctive shooter

Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
There really isn't any such thing as instinctive shooting.  

[Diamond Paul]

Terry, there really isn't in the literal sense of the word.  It's a learned behavior, just like learning to hit a ball, throw a ball, shoot free throws, etc.  No one is good at it at first.  You may use your instinctive abilities when you do it, but you only get good at it by learning from mistakes and correcting them.  It is the accepted lingua franca of the realm, however, and a term understood by everyone, i.e,, "no calculated, regimented system of aiming and knowing where my arrow will hit; look at the target and shoot."  I don't use my arrow as a reference, I'm not consciously aware of a gap, I don't string or face walk, and have no sight on the bow.  This method is, for better or worse, known generally as shooting instinctively.  That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge it for what it really is: a method of aiming using a mental sight picture at different distances reinforced over time and through dilligent practice.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It's not magic, and it certainly has limitations in terms of consistently shooting well, or a least grouping arrows well.  No one shooting "instinctively" is going to beat an Olympic archer at 90 meters, just ain't gonna happen.  But, I think that the mental sight picture can be trained to be just as effective at close ranges, in terms of practical hunting accuracy, as anything else, perhaps more so in some cases.  So, yes, I still say that, after the first arrow, there is no such thing in fact, but we call many things by terms that are not factually correct, and If we wish to have discussions using common terms, then we have to use those terms.  Ray, send me your address.  Paul.

[BLACK WOLF]

DP,

When the word 'instinctive' is used to describe something...it often means 'instinct like'.

It does NOT have to be an instinct for something to be instinctive.

Ray  

[Diamond Paul]

Look, I don't want to argue about this.  All I wanted to do was maybe help someone who might not understand how this type of shooting works gain a better understanding.  I said it before, I'll say it again: I like the term myself.  It has a certain romantic, mystical flair to it, but the way one becomes good, or perhaps adequate might be better, at it is nothing mystical at all.  Your mind does the gapping subconsciously, instead of your eye/mind consciously doing the gapping.  I am not going to argue about it any more, or worry about how you or anyone else wants to define it.  However anyone shoots is fine with me, always has been.  Paul.

[BLACK WOLF]

DP,

I'm sure you have helped out many people and I'm sure you will continue to. Your description of of instinctive aiming...is pretty much spot on...but I and many others believe you're doing a diservice to those you're trying to teach by saying it doesn't exsist one moment and than claiming you use it the next.

You obviously understand what Instinctive Aiming means. If you can desribe it like you do...it exsists. It's pretty much the same definition that most of us here use.

A French Horn is neither French...nor a Horn...but many musicians know exactly what it is and continue to call it by it's name. The same should be held true for instinctive aiming to eliminate the confusion.

If someone wants to argue that a person is born with the ability right out of the womb to aim instinctively and there is nothing to learn...I definitely would support you and anyone else if you decided that you wanted to clear that up for them  

Ray