draw length and Terry's clock

[cj3a]

Hello,
I am taking the time to go over my form. My accuracy has been moments of greatness followed the agony of defeat. I am concern that my present form has been shorten to the point that my accuracy is suffering.  When I try to duplicate Terry's clock my draw length rivals a NBA player. I shoot a 40lb longbow with a 30 inch arrow (29 plus 1 inch added for clearance), for reference I am 6-2 tall. It seams that to get my elbow to the 6 o'clock position I need to extend my bow arm almost straight to maintain my anchor. Which would make about a 34 draw. Is this possible? I have yet to shoot like this.

[BLACK WOLF]

No...you do NOT HAVE to shoot like that.

Compromise if you HAVE to.

We are all built different, have different goals, different abilities and different personalities.

There are fundamentals that work great for the average person and they are a good place to start...but you DO NOT hvae to force yourself to shoot exactly that way to be any good.

Find an anchor point and elbow position that allows you to attain and maintain consistantcy while achieving good follow through.

Shoot at a blank bale from a few yards without any concern for aiming and find what feels comfortable and repeatable.

Ray  

[jhansen]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by having to keep your bow arm straight in order to maintain anchor.  Anchor is a function of your drawing hand/arm/back muscles.  Your bow arm shouldn't have anything to do with it.  Your anchor point can be just about anywhere that is solid enough to be repeatable from shot to shot.  As Ray said, we are all different and have to modify our form to find what works for us.  The key is doing the same thing each and every time.

That said, there are certain principles or basics that come in handy.  The bow hand, drawing hand, and drawing arm elbow should lie in a straight line with the arrow.  In other words, the pull should be straight back.  The draw starts with the arm muscles and then the load transfers to the back muscles as the draw is completed.  This line should be parallel to a line drawn through the shoulders.  That is what Terry's clock demonstrates.

As a side note, I was watching some archery videos on YouTube the other day, many of them showing archers from Asia.  At first I thought that most of them violated everything I had believed about shooting a bow.  The drawing hand would fly back violently and the arm would sometimes end up extended almost straight back.  In some cases the bow arm would also appear to fly to the side and the bow would rotate in the hand until the string was out sideways or beyond.  Anchor points seemed to be anywhere from corner of the mouth to the ear to one that appeared to float between the head and collar bone.  There was, however, one factor that was the same in each case.  They all showed the same alignment of the bow hand/arrow/drawing hand/drawing arm elbow that shows in Terry's form clock.  This tells me that as long as your basic form is good you can do a lot of other things "wrong" and still hit what you are shooting at.

John

[Terry Green]

The clock is to show what you should strive for to negate any bow or sting torque or muscling of the bow.

To achive zero torque, all of you energy should be going directly toward and away from the target.

If you can't get there, get as close as you can for more consistency, especially when you have to manufacture a shot in the field.

If your elbow is pointing at 5 Oclock, and your move it to 6 Oclock, your draw length is going to increase.

I'm also with Hansen on not quiet understanding what you are saying about your bow arm.

[TradPaul]

i think when he says "straight" he means he has no bend in the elbow, possibly putting it in the way of the string...at least it sounds that way to me.


P.

[Terry Green]

Right.......but not sure how that influences his 'maintaing anchor'.

[cj3a]

I hope I can explain this better. Using my present form to get my elbow at the 6 o'clock position I need to draw pass my anchor point. At my normal anchor point my elbow is at around 5 to 5:30 position. To have my elbow at the 6 o'clock my bow arm needs to be elbow locked straight. Thanks for helping.

[BLACK WOLF]

cj3a,

If I understand you correctly...you really shouldn't need to have your bow arm locked straight to help you attain the proper position of your drawing arm.

If that's the case...it definitely sounds like you are overbowed or need to work on your muscle control.

Your arms are pretty independent of each other.

Takes some pictures for us or a video. A picture is worth a 1000 words.

It would definitely help us help you.

Ray  

[cj3a]

Thanks for the help Wolf. I hope at 40lbs I am not over bowed. Pictures are a good idea, I should have payed more attention in techincal writing class.
Thanks

[Terry Green]

OK....so...where WERE you anchoring 5?...and where WERE you trying to anchor at 6?

Any way you can video yourself???

[cj3a]

Hello Terry,
With my present form my elbow is a little pass 5. If I move my elbow to the 6 o'clock position my fingers move passed my nock point( corner of my mouth). So to get my fingers at my nock point my bow arm needs to be straight entill my elbow is locked straight. Which seems like it would twist or shift the bow on release. My concern about this is when I study the form of a good archer the clock diagram form is followed. I will work on getting some pictures or video.

[jhansen]

John,
Do you lean your head forward when you draw and/or do you bend your drawing fingers at the knuckle joint between fingers and hand?  I've been trying to break down your description to see how I could reproduce what happens to you.  I still can't see where the bow arm has anything to do with this.  Pushing the bow away from you will only increase your draw length and can't do much to your drawing arm or anchor point unless the bow is stacking and your drawing hand is being pulled forward.  Does your bow stack?  If not, just let your bow arm be slightly bent and concentrate on the drawing arm and hand.  Also, if I push my face forward as I draw I can seem to move my anchor point to the rear as you describe.  I can do the same thing by bending my fingers at all three joints as I draw, basically making a claw.  I've been known to do that one when my hand gets tired.  Your drawing hand should be flat from the wrist to the middle knuckle of your hand.

John

[cj3a]

I hope this works. I had the wife get on the roof for the pictures. Ignoring the straw in my hair and the arrow without the point this is my present form.
 

[Terry Green]

[Terry Green]

Try to get your shoulders more perpendicular to the target....that will bring your power points(wrist and elbow) around as well....hopefully.

[cj3a]

Thanks Terry, I had my wife take a few photo's and they all looked the same. Do you see anything else? I looked to be a bit hunched over. To be honest it looks like a mess. Photo's are to honest.

[Terry Green]

Not sure if you are 'hunched' or leaning.  NO problem with leaning as it clears the cloths of the string travel, and puts you into more of an athletic  power position......not that straight up is bad by all means.

[Molson]

It looks like everything is curling in toward your chest, like you're trying to keep warm by a small fire... if that makes sense.  When you do that, you end up drawing with your arms (bicep/shoulder/forearm) and binding everything up.  That tension keeps you off the back and leads to that 5 o'clock elbow at anchor.

Try stretching out your back like you're taking a long rowing stroke before you draw to get a feel for squeezing with the back.  I'm guessing that you probably have some trouble burying your anchor too.  Try to concentrate on dragging your thumb through your anchor as you draw, which seems to help the back complete the motion.

[cj3a]

Hello everyone and thanks for helping. I have been making some improvements in my form but easily slip back.  In the beginning I just could not get it but after showing my wife what I was looking for she was able to coach me on what to do. I am definitely using my back muscle more.