Shooters Forum

Contribute to Trad Gang
Become a Trad Gang Sponsor



Author Topic: Hypnotism For Target Panic?  (Read 1597 times)

Offline snufer

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 208
Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« on: February 01, 2009, 08:55:00 AM »
Anyone ever tried it? My target panic has returned with a passion, can't even come through a clicker! Seeing as it is a mental thing, I was thinking that maybe a hypnotist may be able to help, (trick my little mind!)

Offline allan f

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 170
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2009, 09:19:00 AM »
Really funny you should say that.  I run a wellness centre and have a hypnotist in it that specializes in sports hypnosis.  I have gone to him for two sessions to help focus and clam my mind when I am shooting. I can tell you that for me I found a big improvement in the way I was able to focus.  For example before the sessions I went to a 3-d shoot and shot about an 85-86 out of possible 150 on fifteen targets.  After the two sessions I shot a 113 out of 150.  Now  some might say "its all in my mind" which I think is kind of the point, right?

The way it was explained to me is that we have conscious and sub-conscious thoughts. Our conscious is what we can control, but the sub-conscious is based on our life experiences and is how we have trained our selves to move through the world. For example you get bitten by a dog as a kid your sub-conscious says well dogs are scary and mean, be afraid.  Or you get it "in your head" that flying is dangerous or that being in small spaces is dangerous, or in this case you have been thinking about shooting and gotten the wires crossed about releasing at the right time, or you get nervous about the shot in general.  Any which way, your sub-conscious is running a program that you developed somehow.  What the hypnotherapist can do is bring you into that state and re-write the program on how you shoot.  Now if your anything like me you worry about the whole "brain washing" thing but thats Hollywood not reality.  Fact is you can lie under hypnosis, you can come out if you want, and they can't make you do things that you aren't willing to do (which says a lot about the people at stage shows that quack like a duck   :saywhat: )
I would recommend that you talk with the hypnotherapist first and find someone that knows about sports, and I would try for one that knows about shooting sports.  Other than that keep an "open mind" and good luck I think you will like it.
Allan

Online McDave

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 6085
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2009, 04:47:00 PM »
You know, there is an alternative way of solving target panic to hypnosis, clickers, or sacrificing virgins at the full moon.

That alternative is to hold at full draw for at least two seconds before you release.  A by-product is that you will probably increase your accuracy.

I think most target panic is caused by the pull-through release, where we release when we reach our anchor, and never stop drawing the bow.  Nothing wrong with that release; I used it for years, as do many, if not most, traditional archers.  I was taught that it was impossible to maintain good back tension with a dead release.  Until Rick Welch taught me differently, and my accuracy increased as a result.

I think it would be impossible to have target panic if you know that you are going to hold for a full two seconds when you reach your anchor.  Two seconds will seem like two minutes, so don't cheat!  1001...1002...1003...release.  Probably holding for a full second is plenty long, but do it for two seconds until you get the idea.  At first, you will flinch and jerk as you stand there holding the bow at full draw; you can even see Rick Welch flinch slightly in his video #2 on one of his shots if you look closely, but he recovers and steadies his bow arm, and then releases the arrow to hit the 10 ring.  You can always go back to the pull-through release after you have licked your target panic, if you want to, but I'll bet you won't want to.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Technology....the knack of arranging the world so that we don't have to experience it.

Offline Cecil

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 214
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2009, 07:07:00 PM »
Get Jay Kiddwells book it explains it all and how to deal with it best 13.00 I have spent. the book is Instinctive Archery Insights.

Offline turkeyslayer

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 110
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2009, 09:49:00 PM »
hey mcdave,evidently you've never had the target panic monkey on your back,its just not that simple trying to beat it ,ive been battling it for 20 yrs & still work on beating it every time i shoot.
hey snufer,its a lifelong battle,good luck.

Offline Tilzbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 165
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2009, 11:16:00 PM »
I know from personal experience that holding for two seconds won't cure target panic... I can hold for 12, 10, 7, 5, 3 or however many seconds I choose and shoot a perfect arrow; however, sometimes I still get TP and blow the shot if I'm not focused or I'm nervous. Usually it comes on the last arrow when I've shot a great group whether its 10 yards or 60 yards. Holding at draw for a specified period of time is a MAJOR step toward curing this mental infection but it isn't the end. I got TP bad 8 or 10 years ago, it started with the Asbell style pull through release, and although I stopped that and I've got TP beat 95% of the time it still creeps into my subconscious every now and again and whips me. Holding at draw for a specified period of time is a MAJOR step toward curing this mental infection but it isn't the end. I've thougt about trying hypnosis for a long time and it might be time to give it a try.
One man thinks he can, the other doesn't. Both are right!

Online McDave

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 6085
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2009, 11:29:00 PM »
Hey Keith, I didn't mean to belittle anyone's problem, although reading back over my post, maybe I came across that way.  I've had target panic problems in the past, and I've used clickers and other means to try to control it.

But the one thing that seems to have worked is switching from a pull-through release to a 1-2 second hold at my anchor.  Maybe it only worked for me, so maybe I was too confident in recommending it to someone else.  I would be interested in knowing what happens when someone else tries it and it doesn't work for them.

For me, if I know I'm not going to release when I hit my anchor, but I'm going to hold, there is no possibility that I'm going to release early.  The worst that I'm going to do is to flinch at some point in the process, and if I do I will either let down and start again, or recover and continue to hold.  I would be interested in knowing why that doesn't work for other people.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Technology....the knack of arranging the world so that we don't have to experience it.

Online McDave

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 6085
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2009, 11:31:00 PM »
Thanks Tilzbow, I guess we posted at the same time.  I guess that answers my question.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Technology....the knack of arranging the world so that we don't have to experience it.

Offline turkeyslayer

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 110
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 03:39:00 PM »
hey mcdave,thats ok.ive been holding at full draw (between 2-4 seconds for over 15yrs now) & it is still a daily battle for me.it is definately a mind thing.
keith

Offline Dozer

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 206
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2009, 07:32:00 PM »
How we deal with TP will vary from person to person. I don't believe there is any set method that is fool proof. It all comes down to the shooters mind and what will work to reverse the problem. Just my thoughts though.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline Roy Steele

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1087
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 07:42:00 PM »
This cured me and my 2 friends.
  Learn Hills style of aiming.Don't stop reading.
  When you see your arrow in your secondary vision you anchor at the same time.It takes a second or two see that arrow and aim at the spot you want.This makes you ankor longer.After you do this a while convert back to instinive.Unless you like to shoot distance.When you switch back your anchor will stay.Plus this makes your instinive groups alot better.Every now and then if I feel a little anchor problem.I just shoot a few arrows HILL style and I'm fixed.I've been cured for over 10 years.
DEAD IS DEAD NO MATTER HOW FAST YOUR ARROW GETS THERE
 20 YEARS LEARNING 20 YEARS DOING  20 YEARS TEACHING
  CROOKETARROW

Offline Roy Steele

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1087
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2009, 07:44:00 PM »
This cured me and my 2 friends.
  Learn Hills style of aiming.Don't stop reading.
  When you see your arrow in your secondary vision you anchor at the same time.It takes a second or two see that arrow and aim at the spot you want.This makes you ankor longer.After you do this a while convert back to instinive.Unless you like to shoot distance.When you switch back your anchor will stay.Plus this makes your instinive groups alot better.Every now and then if I feel a little anchor problem.I just shoot a few arrows HILL style and I'm fixed.I've been cured for over 10 years.
DEAD IS DEAD NO MATTER HOW FAST YOUR ARROW GETS THERE
 20 YEARS LEARNING 20 YEARS DOING  20 YEARS TEACHING
  CROOKETARROW

Offline snufer

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 208
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2009, 09:57:00 AM »
Thanks for all of the ideas, I will try to hold for a 2-3 count before releasing and see if it helps. I still wonder if a hypnotist that has experienced TP would be an answer. Fortunately, I don't have much trouble on moving targets or live game, but when shooting at animals (live) I sometimes have to talk to myself to reach full draw. (Hey dummy, if you don't hit full draw, you are going to miss!!)
Who ever thought that shooting a bow could be so complicated?

Offline Brokennock

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2009, 07:53:00 PM »
I developed target panic when I pushed too hard to improve my 3-D scores. What helped for a little while was breaking the shot down into steps. 1. Set my feet, 2. Focus on my spot, 3. Set my line (raise bow arm without drawing, but you don't neccesarily look at/see the arrow) 4.Draw straight back to anchor, 5. Resetline/reset focus (sometimes, mostly due to bumping my glasses, I lose focus on my spot) 6. Relax the hand (just let the tension fall from your string hand) 7. Follow through.   This definately improved my shooting when I walked through every shot step by step. Sorry it is such a long post.

Offline dagwood64

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 502
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2009, 05:50:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by snufer:
Thanks for all of the ideas, I will try to hold for a 2-3 count before releasing and see if it helps. I still wonder if a hypnotist that has experienced TP would be an answer. Fortunately, I don't have much trouble on moving targets or live game, but when shooting at animals (live) I sometimes have to talk to myself to reach full draw. (Hey dummy, if you don't hit full draw, you are going to miss!!)
Who ever thought that shooting a bow could be so complicated?
When you start thinking negatively you are more likely to miss or not reach anchor. Try a positive thought instead.  :)  

Duane
DEER THE OTHER RED MEAT!

62" Sasquatch T/D Hybrid 47@28
64" Sasquatch T/D Static Tip RC 50@28
64" Flatliner Stealth 45@29
64" Thunderstick III 55@29, for now.
60" Big Rock Black Hunter 35/40@28 (Daughter's)

Sirach 2:1-11

Offline Horney Toad

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 09:29:00 PM »
One thing to try is grip the string with a deep hook, draw the bow to anchor, hold for a second or two, and let down. (without shooting).

Just practice coming to anchor. Make it relaxing.
I think target panic is often related to another problem in form. And one of the most common problems in form is a poor anchor or no real anchor at all. Good luck.

Offline Tilzbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 165
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2009, 12:00:00 AM »
dagwood64 had some great advice! Don't think negative thoughts such as I might miss, I can't get to anchor, I'm going to blow this shot.

Think positive thoughts such as I'm going to get to full draw, hold anchor while developing back tension and execute a perfect shot. It's more complicated than this but more simple too. Reading Jay Kidwell's book and practicing what he preaches is probably the best thing you can do to cure TP long term. I tried tons of "tricks" and they all worked for a little while but it's really about developing a mental check list for your shot and form and executing those things correctly every time. First you've got to develop good form and that can be difficult; at least it was for me. Once that's done the shot process becomes mental and if you can execute a perfect shot the accuracy just happens. It's really cool when it works!
One man thinks he can, the other doesn't. Both are right!

Offline Pruneemac

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 81
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2009, 11:41:00 PM »
you are getting sleepy...

Offline Diamond Paul

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 928
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 09:06:00 AM »
Snufer, here's my take on target panic:  target panic is just a form of fear/anxiety, and comes directly from focusing on results, rather than process.  If you had absolutely no ego (impossible), you wouldn't have target panic, because you would not be concerned with the result of the shot, or what someone thought about it.  I shot many, many years of very serious target archery w/ compounds, and was very good, but anxiety about the result often kept me from reaching my potential.  Shooting 3-D, I often could not execute a good shot because I had so much doubt about the distance, and I dreaded the possible outcome of the shot if I had misjudged it.  At these times, I never made a good shot, even if I had the distance pegged, because of my fear of the possible negative result.  On the other hand, in field, when I positively knew the distance, I could always execute a good shot, unless someone told me I was running up a good score, and then I would focus on the possiblility of screwing up my score, instead of executing the shot.  You have to lose your expectations about outcome to defeat target panic, simple as that.  If, anywhere in your mind, you had no expectations, you would be able to shoot a good shot.  First, you need to quit shooting at any kind of target for a while; in fact, it's best if you shoot point blank at a big bag with your eyes closed, using one arrow only.  You need to focus only on the process of shooting a shot, with no worries about results.  It is best if you can get a really light bow to shoot for a while; I mean really light, like less than 40lbs, so you don't have to struggle at all to draw, anchor, and keep your hand/arm relaxed through the shot.  When you can stand there and shoot good shots (full draw, solid anchor for a couple of seconds, relaxed release) for a solid week with no rigors, plucks, hiccups, etc., you can open your eyes.  When you can do the same with your eyes open (sounds trivial, but trust me, it ain't the same), then you can start shooting at 5 yards on a big, empty bag or bale, with absolutely no aiming marks.  You can progress back accordingly, but the backstop needs to get bigger the farther you go so that you have absolutely no need to aim in order to hit the backstop; you aren't ready to aim yet.  When you can get to a reasonable distance, say 20 yards, and continue to shoot good shots (where the arrow goes does not matter, and at no time must you ever concern yourself with where it goes; if you find this happening, go back to step one), you can then move back to 5 yards, put a huge target on the backstop, and start aiming.  However, the focus must always be on execution, rather than result; if you execute the shot, they will start going where you want them to.  Continue this process back to 20, then go back to 5, smaller target, etc., until you can shoot good shots at any target, any distance.  Any time you ever find yourself worried about results, go back to the point blank shooting for a while.  This reads like a dissertation, I know, I'm an English major, can't help it, but from long experience I know this works.  Target panic is much, much worse with compounds, scopes, very small targets, and the resulting sight movement that comes with it than it can ever be with stickbows.  My last piece of advice would be to avoid ever going back to a bow weight that you cannot positively draw to anchor and hold for a couple of seconds without strain; that's a quick path back to target panic.  This is just my opinion, but has its foundation in many years of dealing with it and helping others deal with it while shooting in some high expectation situations.  Good luck, Paul.
“Sometimes the shark go away, sometimes he wouldn’t go away.” Quint, from Jaws

Offline snufer

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 208
Re: Hypnotism For Target Panic?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2009, 09:24:00 AM »
Paul I can relate to much of what you said and I am going to try your method of defeating this idiotic target panic. When I was shooting compounds, I had the same problem, I tried using a release but that only made it worse, so I went back to instinctive shooting with a recurve, but it didn't take long before I was back to it again! It's a good thing that I am stubborn or I would have quit long ago.

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©