Is "target panic" as common as is presented? If so we have serious issues.

[Dartwick]

I see much consistent talk about the issue of "target panic" - the uncontrollable COMPULSION to release the arrow before full draw/anchoring.(Im separating this from snap shooting where you CONSCIOUSLY decide to release as fast you can even though they are likely related.)

It doesnt make sense that this is a wide spread issue among trad shooters unless we are systematically doing something very wrong. We are normal people for the most part. Uncontrollable compulsions are not normal - they have to be systematically built.

This is as silly as if many driving enthusiasts had an issue where they could use nothing but 100% accelerator at all times. Or if some basketball players always shot the ball 5 feet short of the rim because they couldnt wait to let go of it.

Im not diminishing the issue for any one who has it. What Im saying is its not easy to learn a negative compulsion this strong. Perhaps bare bow shooters as a community need to seriously re-examine the details of the advice giving to new archers and think about what is leading to this.

[Dartwick]

Im not sure why this was moved here. The post isnt about how to shoot - its about the more general concept of are we doing something wrong in how we introduced and inform new archers.

[Terry Green]

Darwick,

This is where it belongs. It is a shooting issue and this is the shooters forum. All target panic threads are here.    

[McDave]

I'm not sure it is as widespread as you think it is.  I can understand why you might think it is widespread, since we read a lot from the people who have that problem.  But of course, what you don't read are a lot of letters from archers writing in to state that they don't have target panic, because people don't write about problems they don't have.

Jay Kidwell, a psychologist, wrote as informed a piece on this as anything I have read in his book,  Instinctive Archery Insights.  He states that target panic is not a common affliction.

I think one of the challenges of archery is that it is an activity we start from a dead standstill, unlike basketball and driving, where we remain in motion.  Other activities where this happens, like golf, also seem to have a range of peculiar maladies that don't seem to affect the general public, but keep teaching pros and writers occupied searching for cures.

[Dartwick]

That could be, maybe it just gets undo press.

Its quit reasonable to think that anyone could get into bad habits from snap shooting. Its hard for me to believe though uncontrollable target panic is a significant issue to the community - unless wide  systemic problem with how people are learning beyond simple bad habits.

[Terry Green]

I've seen people with a static hold style have target panic so its not just 'snap shooters'.  It may be a different kind of panic....but its panic for sure.

I don't understand this panic, as I've never had it.....so I don't read about it much either as I don't want no monsters in my head.   :eek:

[TomMcDonald]

Me and 2 of my friends had/have it.
WE fixed it early though, knowing that it existed and some methods of fixing it.

So, 3 out of 3 traditional shooters in my bunch all suffered with varying degrees.

Ours were all stopping being able to draw about 2 inches from anchor and just holding the arrow, unable to move back ahhaa.

[Dartwick]

Well theres a big difference between a bad habit/tendency - something you tend do do if you dont concentrate on not doing it, and an uncontrollable compulsion - an action that your conscious mind can not over-ride.

I keep reading story's where if the writers are to believed they have a utterly unable to draw a bow to anchor. This is a fairly simple physical action if you cant do it at all thats not normal.

As a long-term sufferer of the stuff, I would say that it’s far easier to learn this negative compulsion (as you put it) than it is to rid yourself of it.  I would also disagree with how widespread some of you think this problem is.  I’ve been doing this barebow/hunting/3D shooting for a long time.  I don’t have figures to backup my opinion. I base it simply on anecdotal observation.  I believe many more suffer from the stuff than don’t.  I’ve stood at many practice ranges at many large “trad” events and watched thousands of shooters.  I honestly believe that at least 80% of those I see have PANIC in one form or another.  

One thing I’m very sure of however, is that if you write the book on how to avoid it, your working days are over.  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :^)

[J-KID]

Jay Kidwell, a psychologist, wrote as informed a piece on this as anything I have read in his book, Instinctive Archery Insights. He states that target panic is not a common affliction.

McDave, I've changed my mind about this - sort of.  I've helped around a hundred people on TradGang with their target panic.  Taking into consideration the number of TradGang members on here it would seem that tp only infects a small group.

On the other hand . . .
   

I honestly believe that at least 80% of those I see have PANIC in one form or another.

I also tend to agree with Jim as I have come to believe that the majority of shooters do have tp to some degree.  I've always said that I do not have, and never have had target panic.  What I have found, however, is that when I do the intervention drills for target panic (even though I don't have it) my shooting improves.  I have also had many coaches tell me that they require that their shooters all do the drills to keep target panic from developing and that they have seen immediate improvement with all the shooters, even the ones who were not obviously suffering from target panic.

My thoughts now tend toward the notion that anyone who shoots on a consistent basis will likely be experiencing the symptoms of target panic on a continuum from mild to extreme.  We know when we get to the extreme end of the continuum with a severely premature hold or release.  Other people even notice it.  On the mild end, however, - the only evidence is the feeling that we are "a little off today."  I've discovered that on those "off" days the intervention drills for tp can almost immediately make it an "on" day!

Finally,
   

One thing I’m very sure of however, is that if you write the book on how to avoid it, your working days are over. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :^)

You were right one time already Jim.  I think your pressing your luck. :^)  The truth is that people don't worry about tp till it destroys their shooting.  It's perfectly understandable. I do hope that as we come to understand it better more people will make the interventions part of their daily practice routine.  I believe if they would do that their accuracy would increase and target panic would be part of history.

McDave, I've changed my mind about this - sort of. I've helped around a hundred people on TradGang with their target panic. Taking into consideration the number of TradGang members on here it would seem that tp only infects a small group.  

Dr. Kidwell,

Unfortunately, from my observations, it appears that most of the sufferers of this plague won’t admit, or perhaps don’t even realize that they have a problem.  It doesn’t take much accuracy to kill a deer at 17.3 yards and a lot of “trad” hunters are content with their shooting ability at short distances.  It’s difficult to convince a fellow that he’s got a serious shooting flaw when he fills the freezer each year with little trouble.

A couple years back, I had a long discussion about target panic with one of the icons of instinctive archery.  This fellow has written books, articles and give seminars on shooting.  He openly admitted to me that he has target panic so bad, that it is impossible for him to come to a solid anchor.  I think I’ll hold fast to my 80% guess—for a while longer.  :^)

[J-KID]

Jim,

I agree with your 80% guess and think it may be more.  And you are correct when you say that people can shoot with target panic and be content with the results.  There are many shooters on the extreme end of the continuum that probably won't seek help.

What I don't agree with is "if you write a book on how to avoid it, your working days are over. $$$$$"  I'm pretty sure I wrote that book and now I'm off to work!  Good thing I like my job.

What I don't agree with is "if you write a book on how to avoid it, your working days are over. $$$$$" I'm pretty sure I wrote that book and now I'm off to work! Good thing I like my job.

Well... I sure can't dispute your experience with that, can I?     :D    I just hope someone will read one of these TP posts and see that they need, and can find some help.  My archery has been much more enjoyable since I got complete control of my shot/form.

[foamkiller]

Jim got to agree with you. Most trad shooters....you know the "I shoot a group the size of a garbage can lid I am ready to go hunting" crowd don't realize they have anything wrong with their shooting. Most of them their shooting form is so unrepeatable that they are clueless to the fact their shooting is horrible. I mean when you don't shoot shots that are close together to start with how do you know that you threw one out or why you did?

[jonsimoneau]

I have fought it from time to time.  Taking lessons with Rick Welch helped me get it under control. I WISH I could shoot the same way Terry does.  His form is unreal, and he is accurate as hell.  But for me, I shoot better when I come to draw and "hold" allowing my sight picture to settle in.  Then I pull through the release and it works pretty well.

[Diamond Paul]

It's not just a compulsion to release the arrow; it can manifest itself as the inability to release, the inability to aim at the target, or the inability to reach anchor, among other things.  I honestly don't understand how instinctive shooters get target panic, because it is usually related to aiming with a device or system of some kind, wherein the "sight" won't stay still, which makes people think the shot won't hit the target, or the release won't happen when the sight is on target, and just as the release happens, the sight moves.  Since instinctive shooters have no concrete sighting reference, there is nothing to really instill panic.  Snap shooting and panic aren't the same and often are not even related to one another; I would blame too much bow weight for snap shooting more than panic.  The root cause of panic is fear of the result (i.e., a miss), which can cause one to snap shots off the moment the sight hits the target or can cause one to be unable to shoot at all, both because the mind dreads the outcome.  Paul.

[J-KID]

The premature hold, or inability to aim at the target, using your terms Paul, is experienced most often by shooters who use some system of gap shooting.  So you are correct in that there is an association with an aiming device or system of aiming.  In a poll on Trad Gang there was about a 50/50 split for instinctive/hybrid gap.  There are many ways to shoot a barebow and those who use a hybrid or gap system will most often experience a premature hold where they tend to "lock up" just off target.

On the other hand, shooters who shoot more instinctively will experience target panic as a premature release.  They will find that they can't get to full anchor before the fingers uncontrollably release the string.  Some might call it snap shooting and others snap shoot by choice.  I think we would really have to concretely define all terms.

You said the root cause of panic is fear and I'd likely agree with that.  Fear is not a component to target panic though so we are really using bad terminology in the name itself.  Historically, the scapegoat for target panic has been a "fear of failure" and that faulty connection has hurt more than helped.  It is actually learned associations and the interventions are usually almost immediately effective.

[Cecil]

I sure have had a battle with it.but I do agree that alot of people I see shoot have problems with it. the part that is so hard for me is how long it takes to get rid of it. reminds me of when I quit chewing I had to try I dont even know how many times before I got it.

[nocksalot]

Jay,

Could I get a copy of your intervention drills? I was practicing yesterday afternoon and felt something amiss:
I normaly will hold on-target for a couple of seconds before releasing, for some reason, the last three arrows I shot, I just barely touched anchor and released.

Jeeez, I hope this isn't TP.

Thanks,
Todd

[rice]

I developed my target panic problem over a 15 year period. I began by instictiveley shooting as soon as my finger touched the corner of my mouth. I was using the swing draw method. I even practiced this way with my eyes closed and could get off some pretty fast shots. Over time, it got to were as soon as my brain decided that I was on target, I would release the arrow. By the end of the fifteen years, it was not uncommon when shooting at a deer for me to release the arrow when the string was a full 4 inches away from my face. This caused me to wound a couple of deer in a row causing quite a bit of mental anguish. I even bought a compound thinking I would have to go back to the wheels and release. Luckily, about that time, Dr. Kidwell was giving out advice on how to beat it on this site. I already had his book, but it was an older one without the panic chapter. I started practicing with his method and continue to do the drills every day. I also dropped my bow weight by 15 lbs, got Ricky welchs tape and modified my shooting. New anchor point(double), a set shooting routine that I follow 1,2,3. I also took bits and pieces from masters of the bare bow 1,and 2 and incorperated into my form. Last but not least, I finally paid close attention to Terrys shooting clock. All of these things made it possible for me to kill three deer in a row this season. I square up my body and shoulders in the shooting clock,draw on the deer, lock in my 2 anchor points, then I admire my site picture (pick a spot)and boom, the bow goes off. I don't ever think I will be able to go back to snap shooting, it just doesn't work for me. I do hope that after a few years i can go back up in bow weight, but for now, I am going to stick with my programs until they are totally ingrained with the lower poundage bows. Thanks to all of you for the information and insight you have provided. It has kept me doing what I love to do, and that is to hunt with a recurve.
Sincerely: Chris Rice