Is "target panic" as common as is presented? If so we have serious issues.

[TomMcDonald]

Jay how do I get your book? I'd like to buy it.
How do I get your drills? They sound fantastic.

[J-KID]

Tom, PM sent.

[TomMcDonald]

Jay's drills are straightforward and easy to do.
People should buy his book.

They are similar to the 'drills' that I've been using over the last week or so.

I get 4 arrows in the bow quiver.
I draw one, hold for 5 seconds, then let it down.
I then draw it again and hold for 3 seconds and shoot.
Repeat.

I think though, that your idea of moving around the target is better for control.

Another one I've been working on is drawing and holding a few metres either side of the target, moving slowly to the target then shooting. At first it was surprisingly difficult to do it with complete control.

I agree with you also about what you said regarding knowing about the panick.

The more you know about the more you can do to prevent it.

It's not a really big deal if you do start to suffer, just approach your archery with a little bit of commonsense. Wtih the help of people around you like J-Kid you can easily get back into control.

[mjc]

Mr. Kidwell I was wondering if you could send me the drills you have spoke of I have noticed my son drawing short. he is hitting anchor ocasionally but less and less as time goes on. thanks
Matt

[rburnham]

Target panic and being overbowed is to diffrent
things. I thought i had target panic but it
turned out i was overbowed. I grabed a compound
bow with 50% letoff and was holding 30lbs and i had no problem holding .You have to be honest with yourself about what weight you can handle
easily.Now if you take a light bow and you still cant hold it then it is target panic.

[J-KID]

Has anyone ever really thought through this weight issue and come up with a "rule of thumb" for what weight a person should shoot?  I just drew my #55 longbow a few times and I can hold it for about 5 or 6 seconds (real ones, not counted) before I notice any loss of muscle tone that might negatively effect my shot.  I know at that weight I can do my drills and I can be patient if the shot I thought I had takes a moment or two to present itself.

I'd be curios to know if someone "in the know" has given this notion serious thought.

[mjc]

I think I heard Byron Ferguson say once a person should be able to draw and hold for ten seconds and still make a acurate shot, I think the acurate shot would tell the tale.

[TomMcDonald]

Originally posted by mjc:
I think I heard Byron Ferguson say once a person should be able to draw and hold for ten seconds and still make a acurate shot, I think the acurate shot would tell the tale.

I don't like that idea at all.
I think if you can shoot accurately while maintaining good and practiced form, both in a recreational, training, and hunting situation, then you're not overbowed.

[McDave]

I'm with you, Tom.  I thought about responding to this and saying that I can't imagine ever wanting to hold my bow at full draw for 10 seconds, but then I thought, who am I to question something Byron Ferguson said?

I think that if a person can draw their bow and hold at full draw for whatever amount of time their shooting style calls for, without shaking, and repeat that enough times to get in a good practice session, that should be fine.

[rice]

For me, shooting a light weight bow gives me the oppertunity to over do the: reaching anchor and letting down and/or holding form for longer periods. This lets me more easily control the shot. Once I have rid myself of all the old bad habits, it is my hope that I can go back up in weight, a little. I am working with a 49#@30 inches right now and expect to recieve a 45#@30 inches soon. I began my shooting career shooting 65#@29. Changing my anchor got me to 30 inches of draw. I hope someday to go to 55#@30 inches.

CKR

I probably would agree with Mr. Ferguson.  Being able to hold to ten seconds and make a good shot would sure confirm two things:  1) Being comfortable with your bows weight, and… 2) You would certainly have complete control of every aspect of the shot.

[TomMcDonald]

Same could be said for 5 seconds in my view.
It's way unrealistic anyway.

It's way unrealistic anyway.

Why is that Tom?  I hold ten seconds or more in my practice sessions.

[TomMcDonald]

Well I hold 5. I don't see the need to hold for 10 in my situation.
In this case, my original comment is still what I think.

"I think if you can shoot accurately while maintaining good and practiced form, both in a recreational, training, and hunting situation, then you're not overbowed."

[J-KID]

I tried a lighter bow for the fun of it and I got the same results.  I can hold about 5-6 seconds before I begin to feel my muscles tremble.  I can shoot well up to that point.  5 seconds is longer than I thought!  I can hold both bows for 10 seconds.  As for accuracy at 10 - Watch Out!

Maybe we are coming up with a rule of thumb here.

[TomMcDonald]

I shake with 20 pounds and 70 pounds. I never would use that as a guide for myself.

[Steve B.]

All I know is that I am a different shooter when my mind and muscles are fresh.  So I make sure my mind and muscles are fresh before I take that shot at an animal.

[cvarcher]

If all of you drop that bow weight down to a 30-35lb bow and go back over the training of your form (with no target) I guarantee you will hold at anchor for the "seconds" needed to direct an accurate shot. each of us has the ability to do this but the time factor will vary .I could do it in 1 or 2 seconds but someone else may need 3-4 seconds. If you are shooting Instinctive Hill style it really shouldnt take longer than that. The key though is that your form is still correct.Once you get it correct stay a while and enjoy ands groove the system in. Then gradually go back up ,maybe in 5-6 lbs increments.But you will get to a point where the weight is forcing you to shortdraw too many times.Then youll know your effective bow weight.

[Cecil]

Dropping in weight helps alot.

[Capt]

I am working on TP with Jay's book and his help and I can tell you the weight of the bow does seem to cause form problems, but it does not mean you are "overbowed".  I can hold at anchor with my 50# without shooting for a good 20-30 seconds (timed) but when I get in front of the butt it seems harder to hold.  Now with the 45# bow I can come to anchor and hold and get my shot off time after time.  One thing that Jay's book has taught me is that it is the "mental situation" which causes TP and not necessarily something physical in other words it is all in the noggin.  Being overbowed may lead to bad habits, which cause bad form, which cause bad muscle memory which can lead to TP.  That is the way I understand it at least and if I am wrong Jay please correct me.