From gap to instinctive

[Mojostick]

I'm sure there's lots of info here if I dig, but anyone have tips or links of threads on tips and tricks on how best to pick a place on the target so that you block out the arrow in your peripheral vision?

Do you point with your hand? Just concentrate on a spot? A combo?

I've been a gap shooter for as long as I shot with fingers and I'd like to spend the spring and summer trying more instinctive.

[bowmaster12]

what i do is focus on a spot with my bow down then while still focusing on that spot i bring my bow up to that spot (not looking at bow just the spot i just bring bow up till mind says im there) then while still staring at spot i pull back anchor and shoot.  Not sure if this is teh "correct" way of doing it but it seems to work for me.  Im also pretty new to this but while shooting last week i consistently hit a standing soda can at 15 yards.  I do find that consintration on the spot is KEY any laps at any point during my routin ends in a poor shot.  hope this helps some

[McDave]

A lot of instinctive accuracy has to do with having consistent body allignment from shot to shot.  Since you're not consciously aiming, your arrow will generally go where your body is alligned, fine tuned by where you instinctively point your bow arm.  If you don't have good allignment, you don't have a good foundation, and and it's hard to impossible to fine tune the shot.  Study Terry's clock and try to match that allignment.  Particularly watch the allignment of your shoulders and string forearm.  Have someone check it for you or check it yourself in a mirror.

You can force yourself to focus on the target until everything else is blotted out from your vision.  I don't know if this is absolutely necessary for instinctive shooting or not; people have strong opinions about it one way or the other.  But whether you are aware of the arrow in your peripheral vision or not, everyone would agree that to shoot instinctively, you should not consciously use the arrow point to aim the shot.  It should just be there along with the trees and sky and whatever else your eyes might see.

[R H Clark]

Try shooting outside on a really dark night.Stick a glow stick on your bag for a target.It might be interesting.

[Mojostick]

I also shoot in my basement. That glow stick is a good idea.
I've been shooting pretty good out to 15-20 yards, when I concentrate on everything. When I don't, I get a flyer that's 8" outside the group. I usually know it as soon as I release.

I'll have to find the best form to keep my shoulders in Terry's clock line.

[Daddy Bear]

For me the key is through developed motor memory of proper alignment based off my line of sight to the intended target.

Forget about instinctive aiming for a moment and just think about any style of aiming when using proper form and alignment. How does a guy(or gal) place their drawing arm elbow when at full draw on a precise place in space that is in direct line with their line of sight to the target when the elbow is behind their line of sight? How is this possible when you are not looking at your elbow?? The answer is developed motor memory. When shooting instinctive, placing your bow hand on a precise place in space that is inline with your line of sight is no different, it's just in front of you vs behind you like the elbow. When you have the developed motor memory to feel the alignment of your bowhand, anchor, elbow, shoulder, etc., keyed off your line of sight to the intended target, you can become very accurate within normal hunting distances. Think of the radius between your bowhand and elbow when everything falls into alignment by natural feel, that radius is longer than the fixed sight radius of most rifles. When you have this down and you have ingrained the flight of the arrow into your brain, drawing and loosing arrows into your marks, without any thought of sighting references, becomes as easy as placing your finger onto the end of your nose with your eyes closed. When you look at a small spot to shoot and you come to full draw, you can feel when you are lined up and are dead on as if a light comes on in your head:) This comes with much repetition of good repeatable form.

A person who never develops a solid foundation in form and alignment, will probably chase their tail in circles trying to find repeatability using instinctive aiming.

Best,
DB

[Basinboy]

Daddy Bear is right on! I have been shooting blind bale every evening trying to get them motor skills ingrained into my memory. By shooting blind bale, you don't have to worry about aiming or where your hitting. That will come easy once you have your form, anchor and smooth release ingrained into your motor memory. Perfect practice makes perfect!

It’s not physiologically possible to block your peripheral vision. It is possible to shoot without “consciously” using your arrow as a reference. It may be as simple as working on your form, concentrate on the mark, and the rest should take care of itself.

[Don Stokes]

Even though you don't consciously look at the arrow, your eye still knows it's there. As long as you're not deliberately aiming with the arrow point, you can maintain your concentration on the spot without "blocking" anything.

Try shooting two arrows in dim light, one with a dark enough finish to be indistinct in the available light, and one with a lighter, more visible finish. You may find that your accuracy is better with the light  arrow, because that's one of the visual clues that your brain uses, whether you want it to or not.

"Instinctive" is nothing more than learning where your arrow goes when you release the string, under whatever set of conditions prevail at the moment. You learn that by shooting enough with good-enough form and well-matched equipment, under variable conditions. Practice, practice, practice!

[Mark Hedges]

Why do you want to switch?  Are you unhappy with your accuracy when gap shooting?

Mark

[Dartwick]

Some people really take to heart the idea of not seeing the arrows - I think it messes most of them up.
Because even if you dont "aim" your subconscious mind makes use of every sensory input it can find.

[longbowguy]

Mojostick: I favor just concentrating on a spot. This is after all the homework, the form work, the practice, the tackle tuning. When all of that is done pretty well and you just want to hit what you are shooting at, concentrate on a spot. A little spot; not the whole bullseye or the whole 5 spot. Aim for the middle of the middle, where the two lines of the X cross. Or maybe an arrow hole near that.

Why? Because you want to set a clear goal and send a clear message to the subconscious part of your mind. 'Somewhere over there' is not good enough; close is not good enough; in the bull is not good enough. You want your subconscious mind to have as it's goal to put the arrow.......right........there!

In scoring, I'll happily take any bull, any five, any x. But in aiming and shooting, I make my intention, my goal, to be more precise than that. Any less than that and my subconscious gets lazy, and calls a close miss good enough. I say it is not good enough. - lbg

[LPM]

When you drive down the highway the white line does more than keep you on your side of the road.  

It helps you align your vehicle and  drive in a straight line.  You don't stare at it or try to line up a part of your vehicle with it.  but its there in your secondary vision.  

You are able to focus on other things while this alignment device works.  Just like an arrow shaft.  

I'm with Don.......I think lighter colored shafts work better for barebow shooting.  You don't stare at the arrow but it's working for you.

[jacobsladder]

LPM....good point..never thought of it that way..thanks!

[mcgroundstalker]

Get a copy of J. Kidwells book "Instinctive Archery Insights". We all have what it takes to be great archers... Just gotta understand how to tap into what we have between our ears.

O.K. What works for me is:

Pick a spot or "imagine a spot" (led light, fly, etc) on your target.

Shoot bright feathers and imagine your arrow flyin' into your spot BEFORE you shoot.

Follow Through! Keep your bow arm up after the shot.

Gotta let your subconscious mind take over.

... mike ...     ...

[GroundHunter]

Yup, instictive aiming is good form, total concetration on the spot, or center of what you want to hit if there's no spot, proper form so you are alligned, and practice at varying distances. Your mind will do the eye/hand/body coordination of the sight picture or shooting image to tell you when you are "on". And if your form is right, you'll be "on" as you draw.

I think it's not really that different from "gap" shooting, except you are no longer consciously attentive to the "gap" or the preipheral image of the arrow. Your mind does not dispense with this peripheral image information, it just incorporates it subconscously,while your front-of-mind total focus is on the spot.

Howard Hill, Bob Wesley and Byron Ferguson all discuss the secondary aim point of the arrow for establishing elevation and allignment. Their discussions of "insinctive shooting" employ the concept of "point blank" distance - where your bow shoots to point of aim with the arrow tip on the target. That secondary arrow position varies with distances for your bow (sounds like "gap"). But, "instictive" shooting is shifting your concetration and focus to the spot, letting the secondary aim point become a subconscious element of form. You are pretty much all insinctive when you no longer consciously "see" the secondary aim point. You'll know you are there when you drop an arrow on the spot, and  your recalled image of the shot is the spot and a ball of feathers flying to the spot.

[bawana bowman]

Don Stokes has it right.
There is no difference between gap shooting and instinctive.
I've been shooting instinctive for 49 years now, and never had any idea that just because I occasionally use the point as a reference, that I was suddenly a gap shooter.    
If you could totally block out your arrow, you would at the same time be losing your minds best available  reference for windage. Then you'll be wanting to know why this has happened. I use the arrow to determine if I'm aligned correctly with my intended target, this automatically aligns my form and I haven't had windage issues in probably 45 years since realizing this. I begin aligning the shaft to target as soon as I begin to raise the bow. Because of this I can shoot in any position, and from any cant from vertical to horizontal. I am also able to release as soon as I reach anchor! Yes, I'm also the dreaded snap shooter!  
But... I can also hold before releasing if I want, and am accurate both ways.
I just don't understand why anyone would want to lose a reference which eliminates 75% of the problems most shooters have in archery!    
Enough said, see my post under "snap shooting is it real?"
Hal  

[Terry Green]

I dissagree.

Gap shooting is conscious aiming, and instinctive is subconcious aiming...so they are not the same.

[bawana bowman]

Terry, I disagree with what your saying.
If you are intentionally holding and aiming using the arrow as an aiming device then yes, your aiming and not shooting instinctively.
But if you are only using the arrow as an alignment aid whether subconsciously  or consciously (as in snap shooting) I still consider this instinctive. Either way your still using the arrow.
What you are saying is basically, if you put a person in total darkness, where they can not see there arrow, and have no reference points to go by and ask them to shoot a small point of light at an unknown distance, then this is true instinctive shooting. Done completely through subconscious thought. All visual aids other than the target it self have been eliminated.
I doubt there are very many shooters which could do this consistently.
On the other hand if you have a visual aid and use it, you are no longer an instinctive shooter?

I think maybe it would be better stated by saying:
If you are using the point of the arrow as a reference and intentionally holding 3" low, Point on, or however high, then you are gap shooting.
If you are using the arrow as a reference for alignment whether consciously or subconsciously then you are shooting instinctively.
I think it all comes down to whether you are intentionally aiming, or just using a reference to be on target. Doesn't matter if it is conscious or subconscious you still see the reference aid what ever it is.
When I snap shoot, it is all one fluid motion.
Alignment and draw begin as the bow is being raised into the shooting position, the moment full draw is reached, I release. No time for any intentional aiming. To me this is as close to throwing a baseball as you can get and is instinctive shooting.
Just my thoughts on the matter,
Hal

[Daddy Bear]

I like the analogy of the sliding scale.

I can and often employ as raw a form of Instinctive shooting as it gets. I know when I am doing so and I know when I am not. I can shoot GAP or point of aim where I estimate yardage and I adjust for a specific GAP or point of aim. I know when I am doing so and I know when I am not. I can blend the two forms where I do not estimate yardage and I do not adjust for a specific GAP or point of aim, but I do obtain a conscious flash picture of the arrow in my secondary  vision as a quick check before honing in on the target. I know when I am doing so and I know when I am not. All are different on the conscious end and each will have a different purpose for my different needs. I fully and completely understand where I am at on this hypothetical sliding scale while shooting the bow.

When my focus is sharp, I'll wager that I can hit movers, flyers, flushed and winged game as quickly and accurately as most anyone. When doing so, I Must be on the raw Instinctive end of the scale. Even if I just slide over a tiny bit to make a conscious effort to catch a flash picture of the arrow in my secondary vision, I'll fumble and start shooting behind. I must completely rely upon my own ability to point and align by feel as I swing onto target and loose the arrow as that mental green light comes on. Some may be able to hit fast movers using a different aiming technique, I cannot.

When I shoot small groups onto targets at long range, I am unable to do so using a raw Instinctive aiming technique. I must go to the other end of the scale and take a full conscious account of the arrow by estimating for distance and adjusting for either point on or for a specific GAP. When doing so, I can shoot some pretty good groups at long distance. Some may be able to use an Instinctive technique to shoot small groups at long range, I cannot.

In the mid-range distances I generally blend the two and use a form of split vision where I do not think about distance and I do not adjust for a specific GAP. But I do take into account a conscious flash picture of the arrow in my secondary vision. This works very well when hunting and for me is an easy transition to make from using raw Instinctive on flushed small game. I can easily go back and forth between the two techniques while hunting on foot but they are clearly different. Some may be extremely effective hunting afoot while using a classic GAP or point of aim method, I am not.

That's my take on the subject, but I may be biased as both my Graddad and dad shot this way and now both my son and daughter shoot the same way as well. So for me that's four generations of influence:)


Best,
DB