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Author Topic: TP -coming on target  (Read 1327 times)

Offline Ray

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TP -coming on target
« on: June 14, 2009, 08:58:00 PM »
I have a new problem now.I constantly shoot low.I can,t seem to bring my bow arm up.I know I am aiming low,but if I am able to raize on target the arrow is gone before coming on target.
  I have read JKidwells book and he mentioned doing a figure eight with the bow arm to come on target  and to mix it up to fool the brain.
  Has anyone else had or solved this problem?

Offline tamure

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 11:18:00 AM »
I have this problem. My TP hit its absolute worst just recently. Can't seem to move onto target, my arm feels "stuck" low and left. I know if I release then, it will go low. But I can't smoothly bring it on target, hold, and release like I used to. So I try to "throw" the arrow up and right, which of course results in poor arrow flight and even poorer accuracy.

I went to a shoot couple weeks ago which was beyond embarrassing, it was just plainly sad. I used to shoot half decent, which makes this loss of control and accuracy absolute agony for me. I'm at the point where it's either: (1) cure the TP, or (2) give up archery.

I read Kidwell's book a while ago, and back then, I tried his technique, but sort of half-a$$ed, and I got some, but not much, benefit from it. I'm now committed to using Kidwell's technique every day: morning, noon, and night.

I have 6 weeks in which I must completely cure my TP.

I've already spent a week on the first part, and it has seemed to help. I would suggest randomly moving around, not solely the figure eight. Figure eight isn't bad, but I think the more pattered your movements, the more likely the TP will return, if only in a new form.

I've also used my regular bow a little bit with step one. When you're holding a full-weight bow, there is a lot more temptation to release early. Of course, you can't do it as much, but I find it helps to occasionally use my regular bow.

Also, I found it is necessary to take it outside to the range, and do the drills just as if you are going to shoot, from 20 - 30 yards. For me, there is a night and day difference between doing drills in the living room and actually standing at the stake on the range. During the latter, it's like my brain says "OK, now this is for real," and it wants to go back to all the bad habits.

So, I haven't beat my TP yet. I'm just starting really, seriously working on it. I hate to say it, but the drills in Kidwell's book are boring and tedious. But his explanation of why they work makes perfect sense to me, and also explains why it is necessary to do the drills a lot and often.

Today is the last week of week 1, which was all step one. Tomorrow I'll start mixing in step 2. With any luck, I'll have it licked in 3-4 weeks, and the last 3 weeks will be drills + practice to regain my confidence.

Anyway, that is my plan. Hopefully I'll be posting back with good news and updates in the next couple weeks. All I can say now, is that it does seem to be helping. Do the drills from Kidwell's book, and don't cheat. And do them often and a lot. It doesn't do any good to just sorta do them, every once in a while.
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline tamure

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 11:21:00 AM »
OK, so that was about the longest post ever.

Reader's Digest version:
Yes, I have similar TP.
I'm in the process of fixing it.

Kidwell's drills help, but you need to be committed to doing them right, and doing them A LOT.

Make it more random than just the figure eight. I think the more pattern there is to your movements, the more likely TP will come back.
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline Ray

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 04:42:00 PM »
If someone could come up with a pill for TP ,I think I would by stock.

Offline tamure

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 06:12:00 PM »
I'd be a broke addict.  :(
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline Quinn

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 06:47:00 PM »
I have a friend who has it. He can't even get to full draw. He's a great shooter and has been casting arrows almost since he could walk. I know he tried the Kidwell method to no avail... but, we were at a trad shoot not long ago and when the subject came up (his problem is kind of obvious) a fellow trad shooter recommended he focus on his target, then close his eyes and come to full draw. After achieving full draw (anchor, back tension, etc) open his eyes, re-focus on the target and release.
I could see in his eyes, and in his shot placement, that there was something there.
"If you put the federal government in charge of the  Sahara Desert , in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."   ~ Milton Friedman

Offline Quinn

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 06:51:00 PM »
PS The fact that a lawyer is shooting traditional archery gives inceases my hope for humanity...
"If you put the federal government in charge of the  Sahara Desert , in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."   ~ Milton Friedman

Offline Ray

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 07:33:00 PM »
A new method to me worked this evening.A pal of mine shoots like this.He would not admit to having TP but he shoots this way because he can not come up on target.This is not something ever mentioned before im sure.What he does is start above target and as you drop your arm release when you believe you have the right elevation.
1.I can lock in my back muscles and anchor.
2.I DO NOT have the target in full sight until my arrow is on target.
3.This prevents me from short drawing.
4.It was much easier to drop my bow arm slowly than to raize my arm.
5.My focus is more on the feel of the shot than the focus of the target,which I think has always plagued me.
6.My misses seem to be higher and more powerful
  It may not last but tonight I LIKED IT.(try it)

Offline monkeyball

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 11:39:00 PM »
Man,you guys are confusing the heck out of me!!

 Just look at the spot you want to hit,raise and draw your bow at the same time,middle finger in the corner of my mouth,kiss her goodbye and don't,don't,
don't,move a thing until you see your arrow sticking in the spot!

I feel for you guys,hope you can get it figured out.

                             Good Shooting,
                                      Craig

Offline 30coupe

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 11:56:00 PM »
Shoot into a blank bale. Just focus on form, no aiming. Work on form until it becomes second nature. Then when you shoot at a target, just aim. It doesn't matter what aiming method you use. This is from Masters of the Barebow III. It works. By breaking your practice down, it allows you to just worry about aiming at the time of the shot.
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Offline sweet old bill

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 05:23:00 AM »
Ray I have TP several years now and it sure seems to come and go.

 My wife was watching me shoot and she said why are you having the problem is it because the bow is to heavy for you ? The answer was no I have the same problem when I shoot my compound bow with 80% let off.

 She said it seems the more you are concerning with your release the bigger the problem becomes.

 So why not just train your mind to make sure you pick that small spot and make sure you focus on that and not the release.

 Well it has been a week now, and it seems when I shoot a 3D course of 40 targets, I now have to 2 or 3 arrows that have TP release or short draw and then the other 38 arrows shot are now good.

This is also working with the compound bow, only difference is keep the mind on that Pin and still pick a spot.

 So I am trying to retrain my mind to focus on things I can control and that is pick that spot and focus on the aiming of the process.

Bill
you should see how I use to shoot
Sand dune archers Myrtle beach SC
Senior archers of Oneonta NY

Offline Ray

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 06:44:00 AM »
The mind is a very strong thing.
Nothing can be accomplished without a thought to start.If your thoughts are negative,that is what you will accomplish.My bable(excuse please)is that it is very hard to explain TP to someone who has never strougled with it.TP is a mental block of lead between my ears.I have read and tried many things and am determined to win the battle.
 Thanks for listening and thanks for any help.

Offline Cecil

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 08:23:00 AM »
I have TP. I have it the most at 3d shoots. There is times I lock up before I get on target then try to push it and ends up as a pass by shot. sometimes I dont get to anchor. good luck with the battle.

Offline tamure

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 08:38:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Quinn:
PS The fact that a lawyer is shooting traditional archery gives inceases my hope for humanity...
Rofl, we're not all bad. As Mark Twain said,  it's just that 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.

Seriously, like Ray said, TP is a strange thing, which really shows the power of the mind, unfortunately in a negative way. If you've never had it, if I were you, I'd stay away from these threads like the plague.

Archery is really very simple. I remember a time where I was nailing the 3Ds and I actually thought to myself "wow, this is easy!" Mechanically it is. Much more so than, say, golf. But it is amazing how your mind can interfere with such a simple process and make it nearly impossible to perform correctly. For me, I knew for sure I had it bad, when my buddies said: "You're jerking your bow arm up right at the last second." and I replied / whined "I know! I know! I know what I'm doing wrong, but I just can't help it!"

Ever see the Haney Project where Hank Haney is trying to fix Charles Barkley's golf swing? Believe it or not, Charles used to be a pretty good golfer. Now, if you've seen his swing... well, it's not pretty. It looks like something similar to TP to me.
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline E Hyman

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 09:15:00 AM »
Feel your pain guys.
I am 42 and shot compound since a kid. My TP got so bad that it was affecting my gun shooting. Got so p'd off at myself that i quit hunting and shooting for 5 yrs. Stuck to my rc planes.
Got the bug this spring but tired of all the high $ and high tech crap I whent trad. Flintlocks i can hold steady and squez the triger but TP still there in the bow.
My shot starts with bow arm on target then pull. Sometimes the arrow is gone before my hand is near my face hardly ever at anchor.
Put a clik it on just the other day and now hitting anchor squezing shoulders till click and follow through. Putting arrows in a 4 in circle at 15 yrds.
Dont know why my brain likes that little gadget and not gonna think about it. Just know it likes it and shooting is fun again.

Have fun, dont think so much and good luck.
Eric

Offline Smallwood

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2009, 10:01:00 AM »
please, give a clicker a chance. shoot one for a solid month and see if it helps. it will.

Offline tamure

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2009, 11:49:00 AM »
I used to use a clicker, because I found that I was creeping forward after anchoring and losing a lot of power. I don't have a problem making it to full draw - indeed, I often hold it at full draw for waaaay too long. My problem is getting on the bullseye. So to me, an "early release" means letting go before you get on the bullseye, not before you get to full draw. It's basically giving up on trying to get on target. It sounds like Ray's form of TP is similar to mine. I realize for most people, "early release" means letting go before full draw. Sorry for the termination confusion.
Directions: Hike, camp, hunt, fish, wash, rinse, repeat.

Offline Cecil

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2009, 12:52:00 PM »
I put me a clicker on. I have used one before but didnt take the time to learn to shoot it correctly. I flinch when it clicks sometimes.  is anyone else using one that has trouble with them when you started?

Offline Capt

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2009, 09:58:00 PM »
My problem was (is) I get on target and couldn't get to full anchor-just kind of froze about 2" from my anchor.  Strange and frustrating I started Jay's drills and anytime during practice that I feel that I can't get to anchor I start again with the drills.  I have found if it gets really bad I just get up close and personal with the blank bale.  I can't recommend Jay's book enough.

Offline Ray

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Re: TP -coming on target
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2009, 10:22:00 PM »
I tried a clicker.Got tired of my friends yelling(pull that thing back).
 I learn to shoot from Asbell.
I use to sight down the arrow as I drew on my target.It worked and I was good at it for a long time.I no longer can shoot that way,even with a light bow I freeze short and never reach anchor.
 I can reach anchor now but only when I anchor then aim,which is kind of like gap shooting-of which I suck.

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