Author Topic: stinkin' longbows! (Read 1947 times)

brackshooter · « **on:** July 21, 2009, 12:27:00 AM »

So heres the deal. I feel like I can take just about any recurve and get it tuned in about 15 minutes, but I cant for the life of me tune a longbow! Biggest problem is, I really love shooting longbows the most. Its really frustrating because I will shoot them fine, get good groups, but the arrows are consistently waving in flight. I have tried bare shafting, MANY different spines, moving the nock,changing the brace, etc, all to no avail. Any other tips? BTW, its a 66" bighorn, locator grip, 66#@28, and I draw about 30 or 30.5", so about 74# or so at my draw. ff string, 12 strand, with a few limb savers silencers on it. Please help, I am losing my mind over this. BTW, I have a perfectly good Wapiti recurve sitting in the garage that I can shoot great, but I cant seem to put this longbow down!

brackshooter · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2009, 12:29:00 AM »

oops, wrong spot! Can someone move to powwow for me? sorry

Shinken · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2009, 12:33:00 AM »

What shafts have you tried?

What shafts are giving you the best results so far?

What are the shaft diameters?

Have you tried building out the strike plate?

Inquiring minds need more information....

Shoot straight, Shinken

tyee · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2009, 02:29:00 AM »

31" 2317 with 145 up front
or beman ics 300 with weight tubes
and the presure on you grip hand maybe causing issues

casady · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2009, 07:04:00 AM »

Longbows are ther devil.......I feel your pain

dan ferguson · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2009, 09:58:00 AM »

Brackshooter, I don,t know your bow and never have seen one. Is it a straight limb bow? All I can tell you is what I,ve learned. At your draw length you should be shooting a longer bow maybe. I draw 28 and shoot a 69" bow, But I say this with caution because I don,t know your bow and how it was made.

brackshooter · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2009, 11:56:00 AM »

My bow is a slight r/d bow. Arrows I have tried? Carbon 400s, 340s, and 300s, easton 2117s, 2219s, and 2317s, all with point weights of between 100 and 250. So far best flight has been with Carbon express Term Hunters, which have a 340 spine, and 200 or 250 up front.

OkKeith · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2009, 12:28:00 PM »

Brackshooter,

When you say "waving in flight" do you mean up and down or left to right?

One thing I guess I gotta ask is, if you are getting good groups out to the distances you want to hunt, what difference does it make if the arrow does summersaults before it gets there?

I realize that is stretching it a bit, but way back when, when I started shooting a longbow after a lifetime of recurves(up untill that point in my life anyway), I also thought the arrows were doing funky things. That is until I learned a little more about the whole archers paradox thing.

In my experience, recurves are a little less picky about spine and shoot well with arrows spined higher than would be recomended. This would mean arrows come off a cut-to, or cut-past center recurve with less paradox than off a not-quite-cut-to-center longbow (which would be pickier about spine). Stand behind a selfbow shooter and watch their arrows go through paradox and ya wonder how they can ever hit anything, but they do.

I shoot extreemly stiff arrows out of my recurves, and have to dial the spine back (or the point weight up) for my longbows. Since there is a lot less wood in a longbow riser (usually anyway) I believe you see more of the arrows initial stages of flight. Pair this with more movement during the paradox recovery portion of flight and I think you have what you are experiencing.

As long as you hit what your aiming at, and the arrow is straight into the target from where you are shooting, your fine.

Hope this helps some.

OkKeith

unclewhit · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2009, 12:53:00 PM »

I'm with OkKeith on this one.
Without actually being there to watch your arrows fly, I would say your dealing with paradox.

brackshooter · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2009, 12:58:00 PM »

I must be a little bit of a perfectionist, but that little bit of waving is driving me crazy! Especially when I know not everyone has this issue. And by the way, not all of the arrows are sticking in the target perfectly straight. I would say that one out of every three comes in at a slight angle.

OkKeith · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2009, 01:20:00 PM »

Brackshooter,

If those arrows wobbling around is bugging you, I suppose you could switch to a less visible fletch until you get used to it

If the occasional arrow is in the target at a wonkey angle, sounds like the bow is twisting in your hand or some such thing. Could be a bad arrow (misaligned nock, crooked shaft, boogered fletches).

Number your arrows and if one is consitantly out, there ya have it.

If I shoot 4 arrows, the third is always my worst. If I shoot 5, it's the fourth. If I shoot 6 the second and fifth. My focus is my greatest handicap. Not saying yours is, but it sounds like the bow is doing ok, might look elsewhere for a way to tighten your groups.

Have fun though, that's what it's all about.

OkKeith

brackshooter · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2009, 01:38:00 PM »

Thats good advice Keith. One more question: how much can nocks affect your flight? My string is newish, and the nocks are on there pretty tight. I hadnt thought about this until recently, but can the nocks being so tight affect flight? They click pretty good when I put them on....

OkKeith · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2009, 01:55:00 PM »

They sure can. Real tight nocks can make an arrow wobble in flight just as you have described (not sure why I didn't think of that as well). You can do the ole' hot water trick or hit them with a light sanding (fold the paper two or three times to get the correct thickness).

This could solve your whole deal!

OkKeith

Terry Green · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2009, 03:07:00 PM »

Yes....nocks that are too tight can cause problems....I sand mine a bit with folded sand paper to get them where I want them.

Wobbling arrows are a no no....so don't just 'get use to it'....find out what is causeing it and fix it.

I'm sorry for this, but I can't believe some of the stuff I am reading here.

It matters GREATLY how your arrows are flying. Your arrows are not spined correctly and/or you have a form issue. Either way, there is no excuse for accepting bad arrow flight.

Terry Green · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2009, 03:13:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by OkKeith:

One thing I guess I gotta ask is, if you are getting good groups out to the distances you want to hunt, what difference does it make if the arrow does summersaults before it gets there?

I gotta ask....with all due respect....do you actually believe that as a bowhunter?

Rob DiStefano · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2009, 03:28:00 PM »

what terry just typed about tight nocks.

only 3-under archers need a tad of nock pinch on the center serving, lest the arrow will fall off.

us split finger archers NEVER EVER want tight nocks - that condition will cause erratic arra flight and changes in arra speed which means changes in trajectory.

i tailor my center serving to the arra nocks, ALWAYS a loose fit of sorts, arras will NOT hang on the string no matter what. ymmv, but it shouldn't.

as to an archer's ability to shoot both a recurve and longbow well, it's a matter of understanding the physical differences of each weapon and adapting yerself (and not the other way around).

learn to aim the arrow and not the bow - this is key. get yer head and eye down to the string and shaft, strive for good arm/shoulder alignment. you wanna see that shaft fly off straight - and if she don't, think about form and arra spine.

OkKeith · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2009, 04:45:00 PM »

Terry,

Read what I said right after I made that statement. It was an exageration; I stated that it was an exaggeration (“stretching it a bit”).

At that point in the conversation we were trying to determine whether he actually had poor arrow flight or not.

My recommendation of “getting used to it” was in regards to whether or not he was bothered by the way an arrow comes off a longbow versus a recurve.

Not once…not once, did I suggest that he be satisfied with what he thought was poor arrow flight.

Read each post, all of each post. I don’t really think you were sorry, and in my experience when people feel the need to say, with all due respect, they rarely mean any. I think if you really wanted to know what I thought you would have asked in a different manner, or at least in a private message. I am sure the message had its intended effect for everyone else.

Guess I will leave the advice to the chosen few from now on.

OkKeith

brackshooter · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2009, 04:48:00 PM »

Hmmmmmm, well looks like I will take some sandpaper to my nocks tonite and see what happens, I will keep you guys updated.....thanks

vermonster13 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2009, 05:53:00 PM »

Arrows that aren't tuned properly aren't going to penetrate the way you want. Also if they wobble with field points, you need to shoot them with broadheads to see how bad it really gets. Fletching will hide a lot of tuning/form issues with field points, not so much once you put a big old broadhead on there. Terry is dead on, listen to him, the man has killed a boat load of animals and knows of what he writes.

Terry Green · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2009, 05:05:00 PM »

Keith....I appologize if I read ya wrong.

No excuse...my bad.

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Author Topic: stinkin' longbows! (Read 1947 times)

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