Tuning problems

[Jim Keller]

Hi guys, I'm looking for some help tuning my longbow. I've been shooting trad for about 10 months. I started wit cedar arrows and now switched to alum. I'm shooting 51 @ 28, off the shelf , three under , 5 in. shield
  I checked the easton charts and saw I could go either 1916 or 2016. Decided on 2016 and thought I could load the front if to strong spine. Well I kept shortening my arrow and it kept showing weak. I'm to short now and still weak, by the way I'm shooting through paper at about 8 or 10 feet. I'm pretty frustrated. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jim

[griz#1]

one of my bow's likes 2216's, it's 50# @ 28, arrows cut 31" with 125 tip's  (I draw 30") hope this helps.

[Jim Keller]

Thanks Griz, I have some 2117's I'm gonna try but according to the charts they're way to stiff, but so are2216's. Oh well, it's worth a try. Having shot compounds for 30 years , I was pretty good at tuning them. But these longbows are really driving me crazy. The bad part is I want to hunt with it this year, but I can only imagine what a broadhead will do on the end of it. I'll keep working on it , Any help from anybody else is appreciated.

[Al Dean]

Need much more information.  Draw length, desired arrow length, string type, bow type (hybrid?), cut how close to center, ect.

[Jim Keller]

Al, my bow is a Morrison cougar r/d longbow. 51@28. My draw length is 28". The bow is cut to center but not past. I would like my arrows to be 28.5 or 29". The string is fast flight 12 strands. hope this helps ,thanks

   Jim

[jbuck9]

I do not care for charts evryones form is not the same, if you have any 2018s try them or the 2117s,play with tip weight, shoot bare shafts along with fletched shafts and see what you get.If get them too group togeather then go too a broadhead, and see how she does forget the paper deal unless you have excellant form and release, you will drive your self crazy.

[Al Dean]

I'm probably no help.  I would have started with a 2016 myself.  I do think 8-10 feet is to close for trad paper tuning.  I would try 10 yards and then I would try raising or lowering the brace 1 twist to see if any improvement.  Make sure a perfect release.  I don't know that I'd give up on the 2016s yet.  I think a little more playing with them is in order.

[Jim Keller]

thanks for the help guys. I'll keep working at it. When I think of traditional shooting, I think simplicity. Ain't nothing simple about tuning these things is there?

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Jim Keller:
thanks for the help guys. I'll keep working at it. When I think of traditional shooting, I think simplicity. Ain't nothing simple about tuning these things is there?

Not at first for me anyway at least on all the bows I have been playing with this year.  You may only have a bow, sting, and arrow, but all the form stuff and bow variations can take some time to work out.  When I was first getting back into trad bows serious I was getting things tuned only to find the tune changed as my form and release improved.  

I have more trouble with LB’s than curves due to the grips.  Some bows work out great bare shafting and some not so great.  I would try group shooting fletched and bare shafts.  Get a selection of point weights to test spine before you cut.

I struggled with a high nock on my new bow, but gave up and worked with the best I could get.  I have perfect broad head flight so I forgot about it.  

Also watch the nock setting.  I had one bow recently that was too low on the nock, and the arrow was just hitting off the edge of the shelf with carbons.  That was causing me a constant weak reading.  I did get it tuned great, but when I got the nock set up higher all of a sudden I was way stiff and had to load them up to get the arrows right.  

I have a LB now that is cut to center, and I put way more point weight than I should need on the arrows and the kept showing stiff.  The best I can do is get them to shoot about straight with a bare shaft.  I can’t get them to go weak with any reasonable amount of point weight.  I can’t figure that out, but I did find it grouped best with one particular point weight and the fletched arrows are darts with that point so I am sticking with it.  

I group shoot trad bows.  I paper shoot compounds.  If you paper shoot a trad bow I would shoot farther away, and I would shoot a fletched shaft.  Even cut to center you are not center shot like a modern compound, and without a release you are not going to shoot as well.  You need to allow some reasonable distance for arrow stabilization.

[Jim Keller]

Thanks xtrema. I will try tuning without shooting through paper. I always tuned compounds that way and watched Rod do it on mmb, but I will try group tuning.

[BWD]

Hey Jim,
At ten feet your arrow is not yet out of paradox. I think you might want to back up to about fifteen yards to start. If that shows you anything, try twenty yards. If my arrow nocks are to tight, I get a false indication also.

[Jim Keller]

Thanks BWD. I shot this morning at about 15 yards, and my bare shaft really flew to the right and down. But I'm pretty sure now my problem is hitting the shelf. I gotta figure out what I'm doing to cause this. Any suggestions on that problem would be appreciated

[BWD]

Impacting low and right with nock left? Many times when I bare shaft, my bare shaft hits a little low. Might want to try playing with string nock height and build out your strike plate.

[Steve B.]

I would skip the charts and the paper.  If your bow is cut to center then you will have a wider range of arrows that will work for you.  
Get some, say, 2018's or 2016's, screw on 250 grn. fieldpoints then work on your form from there.

[Jim Keller]

Just an update. I put a small leather spacer under my shelf material and under my side plate leather, got my nock at right heighth Tuned arrow and now arrows are flying like darts and best of all, I shot broadheads tonight ( 125 gr. snuffers ). Perfect , hit right with field points. I really appreciate all the help, guys. Thanks again.
   Jim