Instinctive Shooters

[Aspirinbuster]

I wanted to let you all know that as a new member here I enjoy reading this site and your posts.  

As a lifelong instinctive shooter since 1971, I still have a passion for archery & instinctive shooting and really enjoy being in your company on this site.  Thank all of you....

I will try and answer any questions if you ever have something I can help with---just email or send me a message.  After 38 years I still learn something new all the time...

Shoot Straight,
Frank

PS
And be sure to look up info on the late Rev. Stacy Groscup if you want to read about the man I consider to be the greatest instinctive shot ever... he was a good man and is missed.

[jcar315]

Welcome!

[billy shipp]

Hello Frank....glad to have you join the forum.

Billy

[straitera]

Welcome Frank.

[George D. Stout]

Welcome Frank.  I talked to Stacy many times over the years at Forksville, Pa., and at the Denton Hill shoot.  Never got to spend much time with him as he always had someone wanting to converse with him.  He was a fine, giving gentleman for sure.

[GingivitisKahn]

Howdy - nice to meet you!

[Aspirinbuster]

Thanks gang..

[sdpeb1]

Hi Frank, I've only been shooting trad a few years. I bought a few books before I bought my first bow, one of those books was Jay Kindels(sp?) instinctive archery. I didn't know and didn't want to know any other method. I purposely ignored any info on gap style shooting. I'm not sure instinctive  is the best way, the learning curve is a little longer but it sure is fun way to shoot once learned.- Steve

[Aspirinbuster]

Instinctive shooting has pros and cons.

Cons--it is bascially a short range method of shooting, and also takes awhile to learn/master.

Pros--fun, not much equipment required, satisfying, and a challenge.

I don't care how someone shoots as long as they shoot and enjoy the sport.  GAP, Sights--or instinctive... we are all bowhunters.

[cedar swampman]

I totally disagree that instintive with subconscious aiming is great at any distance. I recently attended Rick Welchs school and he teaches a method that stresses repeatable,solid form combined with picking a spot and letting your bow arm come up(and surprisingly it will come up where it needs to be for various distances). I am shooting better than I have ever have over a span of about 40yrs. Nothing magical but solid repeatable form and setting the bow to shoot where you look.

[sweet old bill]

welcome to the site. I also am still learning this art of trad shooting. I sure wish I could shoot as well as a lot of the people on this site. At 68 years young I still shoot a few arrows most days. I finally for some reason am starting to get how to shoot a recurve. Will be asking questions as they come up. I use to have a hunt camp in Hanging Rock west va, when I lived in Manassas VA for about 10 years. Loved the area and hunting the GW national park areas or off of the Blue ridge  rt 81. Sure is god's country with lots of good folk in the area.

Bill

[Tom-Wisconsin]

Welcome to the site. Glad you found it.

[zetabow]

Originally posted by cedar swampman:
I totally disagree that instintive with subconscious aiming is great at any distance. I recently attended Rick Welchs school and he teaches a method that stresses repeatable,solid form combined with picking a spot and letting your bow arm come up(and surprisingly it will come up where it needs to be for various distances). I am shooting better than I have ever have over a span of about 40yrs. Nothing magical but solid repeatable form and setting the bow to shoot where you look.

Nothing wrong with instinctive shooting I use it on short range shots but Split-vision\\gap and POA are much more effective than Instinct on longer shots (talking past 50 yards) I'm not saying it cant be done but I've never met an Instinctive Archer who can shoot accurately at these longer distances.

[Aspirinbuster]

I am done at short yardage.  I have made shots at great distances--- once in front of a large crowd in Union Grove, NC.  It was a long distance charity shot and the 3-D target was maybe 80 yards away.  I was doing an exhibition for a large group when a man who'd had one or three too many beers kept interupting the show with, "Shoot the deer".  It was annoying me and so about the 4th time he did it I simply spun around and took a quick shot at the 3-D target.  The arrow glided up and landed right in the ten ring!  The audience went crazy.  But if you paid me a million bucks I doubt I could repeat it.  I know the difference in luck & skill... and folks that was winging it!  

However, my dad used to be VERY accurate at long distances instinctive.  I've seen him hit black birds at 90 yards!  But he shot extremely heavy tackle... 90# bows.  

Shoot Straight,
Frank

[TheFatboy]

Frank, you must've been sky high after hitting the bullseye. I know I'd have been!

[zetabow]

Good story Frank.At the weekend I hit the spot on a tricky 80y uphill shot, the sighted Compound who shot with me gasped "You hit the spot, I only got a 3" it made my day. lol

I was talking IFAA tourney shooting in Bowhunter (max 60 yards) and Field rounds (max 80 yards), more so on the Field rounds because you shoot 4 arrows at each target (112 per round) and really need a consistent aiming style.

You can make those great long shots instinctively but when I started shooting Field I found that needed to be consistently be scoring at all distances so I added Split vision to my mid range distances and POA to my long range shots.

Because I still use instinct I'm pretty handy at short range 3D also, so it seems that blending all aiming styles has worked out the best combination for me, you might say the best of all worlds.

good shooting

[strcpy]

Originally posted by zetabow:
I was talking IFAA tourney shooting in Bowhunter (max 60 yards) and Field rounds (max 80 yards), more so on the Field rounds because you shoot 4 arrows at each target (112 per round) and really need a consistent aiming style.

Yea, consistently hitting the 65 yarder without doing some POI is ... rough. Even with a POI a consistent 12" group would be world record shattering for NFAA traditional let alone what we call traditional here. At least further than that is the walk-ups so you do not have to stand there and do four arrows in a row  

I shoot "instinctive" and up to 25 yards its going to be a personal contest and your aiming style is semi-irrelevant. 25 to 40 yards and that starts going down hill as it begins to be hard to shoot instinctive and your gap is large enough that the ones that practice it all the time will do slightly better. At 40 most start being at the bottom of the target and then you get to your point on distance (usually your best scoring long range target). I end up point on at ~57 yards (a little low at 60, a little high at 55). At 80 we all are flinging it into the wind and praying anyway  

Then there are those crazy FITA people who do 90 meters (98 yards). But then that is why they tend heavily towards the metal riser and really light arrows too. I shudder to think how high I would have to hold to get there. I'm used to 65 yards as that is an easy practice target for us - but given the difference between there and 80 yards I know 100 yards is going to be rough.

Shooting dots is a humbling experience with a bow - you can't fudge it and think you are shooting better than you are nor do you really have any excuse but yourself. You can get away with a lot of things in 3-d that you could *never* do in a field round (especially at longer distances) or even a NFAA indoor round (be it Vegas or a Blue Face).

Really, for shorter distances - 25 yards and under - aiming is not the reason most of us miss. Once you get a decent sight picture it becomes largely a game of form and concentration. My NFAA indoor barebow recurve scores are not wholly different from my open class recurve scores. The only equipment difference there are dropping sights, a clicker, and the stabilizers. My traditional scores are quite different, amusingly enough the plunger/flipper make more difference in score than the sights do at 25 and below yards.

[zetabow]

Originally posted by strcpy:

Yea, consistently hitting the 65 yarder without doing some POI is ... rough. Even with a POI a consistent 12" group would be world record shattering for NFAA traditional let alone what we call traditional here.

Shooting dots is a humbling experience with a bow - you can't fudge it and think you are shooting better than you are nor do you really have any excuse but yourself. You can get away with a lot of things in 3-d that you could *never* do in a field round (especially at longer distances) or even a NFAA indoor round (be it Vegas or a Blue Face).

Really, for shorter distances - 25 yards and under - aiming is not the reason most of us miss.  [/b]

I enjoy shooting 3D but as you said shooting Field tells you a LOT more about your aiming choice and Form, by the way I have the Natinal Longbow records in my country 375 Field and 370 Hunter.

[strcpy]

Originally posted by zetabow:I enjoy shooting 3D but as you said shooting Field tells you a LOT more about your aiming choice and Form, by the way I have the Natinal Longbow records in my country 375 Field and 370 Hunter. [/QB]

Wow - that's *really* good shooting and would have been a decent score under the older face.

I never have shot a full 24, 24, and 24 target course, ours is a 12 target one (we usually skip the animal round as you seem to have done) and I just play. If I recall correctly a little over a 150 is the best I have done (12 targets) and that was when I was trying to decide if I wanted to compete or just play. I felt those scores had no real lapses in concentration in any shot and *all* were good. A full FITA is really the only other comparable venue (144 arrows).

A nice bout of target panic along with an increase in time at a job made that decision for me. Plus I can always rationalize "I'm better than that person if I only had tried"  

[zetabow]

Strcpy those score are for IFAA marked Field and Hunter rounds, only a few points off the WR's