Apache Draw (3 under); It works!

[Hit-or-Miss]

I have shot one over, two under for over 3 decades, as it was how I saw Fred Bear do it in pictures. Recently, after reading various posts about different pros shooting 3 under (the "new" style), I decided to give it a try. I had always heard and read of this method of aiming as the "Apache draw", or "gun barreling", not a new style at all, quite old in fact. New name perhaps, but not a new method of shooting.
  Anyhow, I tried it in recent weeks, and although it felt odd and took some getting used to, after a few shots, I can see why this style is now popular! In half an hour of practice, I was blistering crab apples at 18 yards with blunts! Now the snow and Ice have hit, but as soon as I get a warm day, I can't wait to get back outside and stump shoot some more utilizing the Apache draw. In fact, I might just dedicate 2010 to mastering this style, since I do appear to be more accurate.

[ishoot4thrills]

Good for you man! Welcome to our world of 3-under shooters. Glad you gave it a fair shake and decided to stay with it.

Lots of people try it out for a dozen or so shots and give it up because it feels funny. That's too bad though, because they don't know what they're missing.

[Freebooter]

Hello all,
I have tried three under or "Apache Style" and it is indeed neat. But have you seen the movie "The Oddysey" with Armon Asanti or whatever his name is? In the movie he has this beautiful recurve made of what appears to be horns (in the Illiad and Oddysey by Homer it says it was made of horns of some animal,  I forget just now what).  Anyway, at the end of the movie when it is time for a reckoning against the people who had taken over his home and terrorized his wife and son, he shot them all with that bow, and I noticed he was shooting "Apache" Style! That surprised me. I figure you have to be an experienced archer to even know what that is, much less shoot it.

After I asked around and investigated Armond is indeed an avid archer and has bows, and in fact kept the bow he used in the movie. Or so I was told. But I reckon that is his preferred style is the three under or Apache Style.

Just figured y'all'd find that interesting. But you ought to watch that movie if for no other reason but just to watch that awesome scene where he shoots all those bad guys with that bow at the end. And uses Apache Style to boot!
Later,
Freebooter

[Scott in AK]

I tried 3 under about 8 years ago.
After 3 arrows I was sold on the Idea,
don't plan on going back anytime soon.

I think that the 30" draw had a little to do with it, no more finger pinch.

Scott

[rick wittstock]

it has always been my impression that the bow had to be tillered for three fingers under.

[dragon rider]

Rick - generally not.  In most cases if any adjustment is needed, it can be accomplished by moving the nock points on the string - btw 3 under is easier (at least for me) if you use two nock points.

[Freebooter]

I might try it again here fore long.
FB

[graysquirrel]

Interesting that in messing with a bow that can have the tillered adjusted (DAS) the best setting for 3 under is dead even.  No tiller at all.  Nock setting is 3/4 above.

Go figure huh???

[Doc Pain]

Dragon Rider

Did you have to move your nock point up or down and how much?

[WhiskeyTango]

Is there any benefit to shooting 3 under with higher poundage bows?  I have shot 3 under in the past but found it to be much louder at release than one up two down.  I will have to give it a go again.

[bshunter]

I love 3 under but the noise is an issue. When I really focus on putting 80% of the pressure on my top finger, the bow gets ptetty quiet. 3/4 nock helps too.

[divecon10]

same questions as Doc Pain & Whiskey Tango

[Freebooter]

I tried it for a while years ago and I found that the pressure of my three fingers under the arrow make it slowly force my little brass knock point up and out of posistion. I finally had to put two next to each other to keep it from being forced to slide up the string over time. I went back to split.
FB

[NDTerminator]

And here I thought I was the only one left who used the term "Apache Draw".  

I've shot 3 Under so long that Split Finger doesn't feel right.  I doubt I could shoot split anymore. I don't aim down the shaft though.  my focus is on the target and the spot on it I want to hit.

As far as I'm concerned, 3 Under is a "stronger" draw that allows a cleaner release, and no finger pinch speaks for itself.

Rather than using brass pinch on nock points I use .026" Fast Flite serving to tie in my nock points, they are +3/8 to +1/2 inch on all my recurves.

Shooting bows tillered for Split with a 3 Under release puts more stress on the lower limb so they are more noisy when shot that way.  I had one bow built tillered for 3 Under, it was it was more quiet than my other recurves, but not more accurate...

[Raging Water]

I have just tried 3 Finger Under and love it. Tighter pattern within about 1/2 hours practice.

But, I am having trouble figuring out my anchor point and sight window. What are the recommendations?

[WhiskeyTango]

Cant help you with sight window and i far from an expert but i use to anchor my top finger (pointer) touching the back of my cheek bone about an inch below the back of my eye when i shot 3 under.  This was where i had to anchor to get good back tension.  Groups were good but my release must have been far from perfect because the noise was about double that of the split release.

[Winterhawk1960]

Matt,

Thumbnail side of your thumb on your earlobe, and touch your nose to your cockfeather. That makes a consistant draw length, as well as a consistant anchor point.

Winterhawk1960

[bauke]

All that noice is because the bow is not tillered for 3 under. There is much more stress on the bottom limb of the bow and due to that it is not a ballanced shot. You will get much more consistant shots with a bow in balance (correctly tillered).

It might help to move the nock slightly higher.  You will have to sacrifice arrow flight for accurate shooting.  The same thing happens with string walking whree the objective is to hit the target and not so much about the arrow flight as such.

Imo there is a differance between hunting and target shooting. Target shooting it more to get the point of the arrow to hit the bulls eye, irrespective of arrow flight. Hunting needs more penetration and this needs a pure and balanced arrow flight.

[MattR]

Interesting thread, being really picky, the bow ought to be tillered for your drawing style. The reason a bow can be a little noisy when 3-fingers under is used is because the bow was likely made with a symetrically balanced tiller assuming a split-finger draw and thereby anchored dead centre of the string with an even weight distributed throughout the length of the bow. 3-under actually lessens the flexion of the upper bow limb because you are holding below the central nock, so when it is released it returns a fraction of a second quicker than the lower limb, that time differential produces a double 'slap' from the returning bowstring and thereby more noise and a little more handshock. That said, this really is being picky, in general terms there will be little overall effect on most top-flight bows. For an extreme example of an asymetric tiller, look at a Japanese Kyudo 'yumi' bow

[pokeanhope]

What should my knock point be for shooting 3 under? I have always shot my recurve 3 under, and I have my knock point set up with the tip of the arrow pointing up slitley is this right at all?