Learing to Gap shoot

[K. Mogensen]

Hey guys, wondering if you could give me some advice.

First: I've been shooting for around a year and a half. For the first bit, I was pretty much self taught with some books and picked up instinctive shooting. I tried to get it, tried 4 different anchors over time, went to 3 under (which helped a lot) and picked up a book called Shooting the Stickbow by Anthony Camera. Great book. Anyway, I learned form basics, and feel pretty confident with my form now. My bow arm shoulder is slightly hunched but I feel my form is to where I can consistenly repeat it with the occasionally "what the hell was that?" shot. However, past 15 yards, my shots just go nuts.

Now I've been doing some reading on gap shooting. It sounds fairly simple. Figure out your point on. And then figure out your gaps. Is it really like that? I mean, could you guys give me some tips or pointers on learning this. I don't want to start screwing with my arrows as they fly pretty good right now. But how hard is it to learn this?

Thanks. I appreciate your time.

[kodiakkid]

I also shoot 3 under. (never shot split finger)I switched to gap shooting and my shooting improved tremendously. The hardest part for me was aiming (the point of the arrow) at something below or above the target to hit in the 10 ring on an animal target. I started by shooting at my bag target which has several dots painted on it.  For example at 15 yds I would have to hold on the bottom dot to hit the center dot, at 30 yds I would have to hold on the top dot (dots about 8" apart)  This is with a point on at 23 yds. If your arrows shoot good there is no need to change them to gap shoot however I have found that arrow length changes my gap. Also found that longer arrows work best for me. After you learn your point on (which is nothing more than the yardage where you hit the bullseye by holding your point dead on target) you simply move to a different yardage and experiment with different gaps until you start hitting at that distance. Lower gap for closer and higher gap for further distances. I will say again that it was hard for me mentally to make myself hold completely off target to hit the target.I would start aiming below an animal target and before I released I was back up on target and would shoot over the target. Once I overcame that problem I started shooting much much better. I hope this helps.  Paul<><

[K. Mogensen]

Quick question, when you aim below the target for example, is that where you are actually looking, or do you use sort of a split vision thing, kind of look at the bull and where your arrow is. That make sense?

[kodiakkid]

Yea it makes sense and I guess you could say I use a split vision somewhat. Don't want to get you confused but I really concentrate on the spot I'm aiming at. I rarely shoot at anything except animal targets anymore. (mostly deer targets) I'm familiar with the kill zone on the targets and if the yardage requires me to hold off the target I simply hold on something in the landscape that lines up with where I want to hit. I am deffinitely no expert shot by any means but gap shooting deffinitely helped me. Maybe some others will chime in with some better advice. Paul<><

[zetabow]

A great place to learn Gap is on NFAA\\IFAA Field rounds,they tell you the distance and the size of the target so it's easy to work out a reliable and accurate Gap system, once learnt it's pretty easy to transfer onto unmarked 3D\\Bowhunting shooting.

If you read Tony's book he goes into detail about subtle differences in all the aiming methods, I tend to use Gap and Point of Aim on Field rounds and Instinct and Split-Vision more on unmarked 3D as they're more about feel and experience and less dependent on knowing exact yardage. If you get a 3D tourney with tough terrain it can be very difficult to estimate exact yardages and know the size of the 3D.

Gap does work on unmarked 3D but it's better suited to marked yardage shoots. I suggest like myself learn all the different aiming methods and just pick what works best for that particular shot scenario.                      

A couple of ways to learn is put a bright dot on the target roughly where you're Gap is, keep adjust the dot till your arrow starts hitting where you want, the other method is to Gap off Riser put stips of tape on riser for each distance (like a primitive sight) till you learn the sight picture for each distance, once you take off the tape you should still be able to viualize the riser sight picture. Just stick to one distance till you learn that Gap and move onto the next one back, you will see a regular pattern as you move farther back as the Gaps are uniform. When I Gap I'm using both the tip of the arrow and Riser sight picture.


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IFAA World\\European Field Champ, Fita 3D World Champ

I think that everyone uses some form of gap or secondary aim, no one has that much tunnel vision. Left handed I aim pretty much the way Hill and Bob Wesley describe secondary aiming, right handed more like John Schulz's "conditioned instinct".  The steadier your focus on what you want to hit, the easier it is for your eye to get a "feel" for where the arrow is pointing.  It is basically what Schulz's "conditioned instinct" does, but with some analytical intent added to the shot process. The more you do it the more "conditioned" it becomes and the less analytical it gets.

[zetabow]

As you say Parvan, lots of names for all these aiming methods most of them with just small but subtle differences.

Think these subtle difference are mostly people adapting the aiming to make it work best for them, they ALL work and it's just a matter of finding best fit.        

A good example is my own Instinct method (some will argue it's not), over the years I've built a Spatial relationship between where I'm looking to the knuckle of my Index finger (it's directlybelow the arrow), in effect I just point at what I want to hit, works well on awkward short range shots and moving targets.

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IFAA World\\European Field Champ, Fita 3D World Champ

[Eugene Slagle]

I'm learning Gap shooting for Field shooting right now.

From 5' to 40 yards I shoot fairly well with instinctive shooting &for the longest time that is all I knew but shooting Field rounds makes me need to learn a new approach of aiming for the longer shots beyond my point on "40 yards."

For the most part I look at the spot on the target that I want to hit, bring my bow hand up, draw slightly & hold for a moment till it seems right to finish drawing to my anchor, then release.
For the most part I do not see the arrow till it is in the target or I'm close to my point on.

[ber643]

I'm having the same problems (just now trying to practice /figure a sort of gap usage - since the end of deer season). Ever since I started Trad shooting I had (honestly) never seen the arrow - I guess you'd say true instinctive (or guesswork, in my case) - cosequently I had some great shots but I also had some lousey ones (and more trouble on shots much further than 15 yds or so) as I was/am inconsistant. VERY inconsistant at times, That was my big reason for changing, or seeking to. I got some help from a friend and I found form and function seemed to be coming along well and I certainly have had less misses (really stray shots). At the same time I, as i progressed, I finally began to realize that while i was better (and better satisfied) with those aspects - it began to sink in that I was noticeably less accurate - within the target/killzone. It dawned on me that I was not (when i got ready to actually shoot) using the specific "spot" focus that I had (tried to) use in the past - so two days ago i tried to give that focus equal consideration on shots. things seem to be tightening up a little. Now if I just don't loose my gap progress again - LOL  

I know - nobody said it was going to be easy - LOL. Just thought I'd throw my confussion in (mostly to set it in my mind, I suppose).

[Ssamac]

You have to remember a couple of things too

1. You need to focus on the target - a small dot not the whole bag.

2. To do one, the point has to be in your secondary vision. Work on it. You'll get it.

3. Shooting uphill point on you need elevation and shooting downhill point on you need to hold lower. This could get you really disappointed if you practice on level ground and then go to a 3D shoot and miss all over the place.

4. Different bows and even different arrows will have a different gap. You have to compensate for this.

Good luck
sam

[ber643]

Yep, That makes compleat sense - all the things  that applied and had to be concentrated on in "instinctive" shooting (all of them, but #2), Still have to be concentrated and paid attention to in gap shooting, plus gapping and or #2 - LOL. It'll be well worth it if one can get it all together - at the same time - IMO.

[K. Mogensen]

Wow, thanks for all the info guys. After doing some additional reading and shooting a bit last night, then reading Tony's book some more, I think I'm looking at more of a point of aim gap type thing. It was easier for me to focus on where I put the arrow, than to use split vision. The hardest part right now is that my arrows are hitting to the left of where I put the point. So I'll raise the brace height a bit and see where that get's me. I haven't checked for sure, but it looks like my Point On is around 30 yards. I may try to get that a little closer but I'm not sure yet. I kind of just want to get it down. It's hard because I'll shoot 2 amazing groups, and then it all goes to hell really fast. Maybe I just need to work on my form a bit more...

Thanks a ton guys. Very helpful... I'm going out to shoot right now...

[K. Mogensen]

Well, I just tried it. Figured out my point on is around 30-32 yards. Still not entirely consistent (my groups weren't really that great) but I can definetly see the potential in it. When I moved back in to 20 yards and figured out my gap (the bottom of my target, about 20 in. I think) my groups tightened up a bit. I have a really hard time holding at anchor and placing the tip of the arrow where I want it. I'm just used to just drawing, holding, and firing. But I'm sure that will come...

[Doug Treat]

When I gap-shoot, I am gapping at the arrow, not at the target.  In other words, my gap at 20 yards is not 20" but one inch (the distance from the arrow tip to the spot that I want to hit).  This seems to work better for me and I can concentrate on the point on the target that I want to hit while the arrow tip is out of focus but I pay attention to it.  When I am trying to shoot the gap at the target (I would call this more of a point-of-aim system rather than gap-shooting), I tend to concentrate on that point below where I want to hit and, I think, would be difficult to use hunting as the animal is moving.  I don't know if this helps or not.

[zetabow]

K. Mogensen I found Split-Vision was more of a development from learning Gap method.

Once you've learned Gap to a high level your reliance on the actual Gap becomes less and you find yourself quite by accident putting more focus into where you're aiming on the target, once you get to this stage you will find accuracy goes up a few notches.

To go forward in Archery, sometimes you have to take a few steps back.

Good luck        

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IFAA World\\European Field Champ, Fita 3D World Champ

I think that there is a danger in losing accuracy if one gets too fundamental with the mechanical aspects of secondary sighting. A knuckle or arrow makes for a really big fat sight pin at thirty yards.  The secondary gets you in the ball park, your primary focus on the target gets you to groove in for the shot.

[K. Mogensen]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm gonna do some more experimenting with it when I get a chance. (it's raining right now.) One other thing I think I'm going to try is String or Face Walking. Then I'll just choose the one I like the best.

Thanks a bunch guys. Very helpful...

[Cherry Tree]

Can you gap shoot with a self bow or does it have to be a center shot recurve? (never gap shot before)

I secondary aim with my pignut hickory when I shoot it left handed.  I just roll the bow over to get the arrow under the eye, it makes no difference other than that for shooting.

[kodiakkid]

I gap shoot with my selfbows. Paul<><