shooting out to 27-30 yards

[acgesq]

Hi.  I have been reading this site for some time and love the incite that i get from everyone here.  That being said i got into traditional about two years ago shooting a recurve and now i have a new martin x-200 recurve recurve.

I have taken some small game with it but i am trying to make it my goal this year to harvest a deer.  I have been practicing every weekend at our local range on long island and have become pretty proficient out to 22yards usually putting 90% of my shots in the kill zone on 3d targets.

My question is this...i shoot three under, anchor with the thumb/index finger webbed connected area (v area by hand) under the jaw bone area (where the jaw angle forward) under my ear with my index in the corner of my mouth and shoot purely instinctual. Look, think/aim, release.


I tried shooting out to 30 yards and realized that if i "look, think/aim and release" using the line of the spine as my aiming point the drop of the arrow carries it into the boiler room almost everytime.  Really my question is ...is this proper shooting technique?  If i am hitting where i aim is it good enough.  I am curious because since i just started shootinig this way i dont want to continue a bad habit if it is wrong.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Diamond Paul]

You mean you put the arrow point on the spine of a deer target?  Not really clear what you mean, but if that's what you mean, then you are, in effect, gap shooting and that is your gap at that distance (slightly high to hit center of the target).  You are not really shooting using the instinctive method, but who cares?  If it works for you, that's all that matters.  However, most people will either use instinctive or gap; they don't seem to work well in combination, because you must know the distance and the corresponding gap between the arrow point and target for that distance to use gapping, and you don't really think about distance with instinctive, you've just shot so much from various distances that your eye and arm work in conjunction to give you the correct elevation at any normal range without thinking about how far the target is.  What you have found, essentially, is your "point on" distance, where you can put the arrow point on something and that's where the arrow hits, which is very useful to know.  Don't worry about how you aim, just use what works for you.

[acgesq]

No when i aim, i just pick a spot (normally from 18-22 yds) right behind the elbow of the deer and release never looking at the tip of the arrow.

Its the same way with 27-30 yds.  I pick my spot on the spine line of the target and release never looking at the tip of the arrow.  Its sort of like throwing darts for me just aim and release pure hand eye coordination.

[Diamond Paul]

Ok, that's a bit odd.  Normally, you look at the exact spot you want to hit (the smaller you can focus the better).  I'm not sure you want to condition yourself to hit someplace other than where you look; for this to work, you'd have to be sure that the deer was at that exact distance when you aimed at its spine, in order to drop in the chest.  You really need to teach yourself to hit where you look, or your hand-eye link is going to be confused.  My opinion, of course.

[McDave]

Early on, I found that I could trick myself when shooting "instinctively" at longer distances by focusing on a spot a little higher than I really wanted to hit.  This is not really instinctive shooting, since you first either have to know or estimate the distance to the target, and then decide where to focus in order to hit your target.

You can learn to shoot instinctively, or use an aiming device, or switch back and forth between the methods.  But you send a mixed message to your brain when you try to blend instinctive shooting and an aiming device into the same shot.  When we shoot instinctively, we are not making a conscious decision about where to hold to shoot at various unknown distances; we just focus on the spot we want to hit and rely on our brain/body connection to figure it out based on having shot many arrows at similar distances in the past.  When I was trying to shoot instinctively, and purposely focused high, my brain eventually figured the deception out and my arrows began to march upward toward the spot I was focusing on, leading to confusion.

This doesn't happen if we purposely use some aiming device, since we are always telling our brains to line up on some particular point of reference, and the brain never gets a mixed message.

It doesn't happen if we shoot instinctively, since we never make conscious decisions about aiming the shot, so the brain never gets a mixed message.

My advice would be to either shoot instinctively, which means always focusing on the spot you want to hit, and accepting the fact that it will take your brain a while to figure out where to hold the bow at a new distance, or shoot using an aiming device.  Either way you're sending a clear message to your brain.  It also works to switch between methods, say using instinctive for short shots and an aiming device for longer shots.  But trying to combine the methods into one shooting method didn't work well for me, and slowed my progress until I made a clear distinction between the two.

[elknutz]

Interesting.  I suspect it is some type of gap shooting either way.  Your brain is still making an adjustment. But what the heck do I know.

[The Butcher]

I have mixed feelings on "instinctive" shooting.
There is point of aim, gap, insstinctive, and I'm sure other techniques.  To me, I shoot three under now, also.  I'm not point of aim, or gap shooting, as I can prove this.  For the new bow I bought, I was trying to figure out the right shaft.  I borrowed some from friend, and a lot of them were different lengths.  If I were gap, or point on shooting, the arrows would not group well, you'd get high and low shots.  I was breaking nocks at 20 yds, so somewhere inbetween point on and instinctive, I have a shooting style.  I really don't think about it.  I just draw back anchor, and let go.

[The Butcher]

also, if it works, use it.  I see arguements, like your not a true tradtionlist, if you dont "instinctive" shoot.  who cares as stated above.  if it works for you, and you shoot well, just shoot!