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Author Topic: New Instinctive shooter Advice  (Read 877 times)

Offline RecurveHunter01

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New Instinctive shooter Advice
« on: July 08, 2010, 07:27:00 PM »
Hello Everyone, I've been shooting a recurve occasionally for the past few years.  An old bear, late 70's I think, kodiak Hunter 55# AMO 60 in.  I am right eye dominant and draw at 28 in.  However I have always shot with a peep site, I was alright grouping like 5 to 7 in at 25 yards, but being in college I never really put much time into it.  This year though I want to hunt and shoot instinctively.  I have time to practice so hopefully I can be deadly at 20 yards by October.  But I wanted a little advice before I started.  
1.  First off what is a good broadhead/field tip target that can take a lot of shots and is not overly priced?

2.  I like the idea of shooting off the shelf but I'm obsessed with the idea of achieving as much speed as possible from my bow, and I worry about fletching clearance.  Although I wonder if with archer paradox if a correctly tuned set up would clear it or not.  

3.  I have tried tuning my setup based off of online reading but I think hearing the difference in brace height is hard and bareshaft tuning to be a major hassle but I got to where it was effective.  

4.  I like durability of carbons but I have always had to buy weight tubes for them to get them to ~500 grains for deer hunting.  I don't like the tubes but might be the best option.

5.  I shoot split finger with index over the nock, and always draw my index finger to the corner of my mouth.  Is that good or is it too low or too short like not maxing the draw I could get ( I Like Speed    :) ) is it too inconsistent since you can move your mouth and finger?

6.  And finally how do I practice, start close and pick a spot and shoot until I group decent and move out?  Eventually try stump shooting?  

And Finally I live in little rock so if anyone wants to show a newb how it's done here's your chance.  And sorry for the excessive post, I'm just excited about starting to master a new hobby!

Offline redant 60/65

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 07:44:00 PM »
Andy post this over in the shooters forum, you will proably get more respones.  :bigsmyl:
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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 07:57:00 PM »
Andy, you would probably get a whole lot more "shooters" advice if you posted this on the shooters forum.  That being said, maybe some of those guys/girls will jump in here.
i don't think there is a cheap broadhead target that will last if you shoot broadheads on a regular basis into them.  Rhinehart makes one of the better ones but they are also higher in cost (sort of).
Shooting off the shelf with correctly tuned arrow will not be a problem.
Practice form up close.  You aren't going to be able to tune your arrow too precisely bareshafting until your form is consistant.  You can tune using big old two blade broadheads compared to your field points when you are fairly consistant.
As far as speed...in the 500 grain range, anything from about 175fps and up is fast.  Out to 20 yards you aren't going to be able to tell a whole lot of diffence.   :)  
When you get the correct brace height it is noticeable.  Start where the bowyer recommends and then adjust brace height up & then down (or vice versa) using a couple of twists at the time. Reaching 500 grains isn't hard to reach with carbons (use insert weight and point weight to achieve).
The way you anchor is fine. A lot of shooters use a secondary anchor also.
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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 07:58:00 PM »
Oh, and welcome to Tradgang!
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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 08:00:00 PM »
You've got one of the top archers in the US, who also runs an archery school, right there in Little Rock.  His name is Rick Welch, and his telephone number is 501-821-3791.  He is also a really nice guy.  If I were you, I would call him, and ask if you could meet him, even if you don't have the money for his class right now.  I'll bet you he would take the time to get you off on the right start, and I'll bet you will want to take his class whenever you have the time and money to do so.
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Offline bowmofo

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 08:11:00 PM »
Ive seen people get ready for deer in less time , But not instinctive shooters, I hunted small game exclusively till I knew I was ready. I like wood!
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Offline Friends call me Pac

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 11:26:00 PM »
I'm only about 30 miles north on Hwy 67 in Beebe and would be happy to help.  I have about 25 yards of shooting distance at the house and lots of stumping places nearby.

Let me know if I can help.
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Offline RecurveHunter01

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 01:03:00 PM »
Thanks for the welcome and advice everyone.  It's tempting to call Rick Welch but $250 is a  lot of money for something I feel like I could learn on my own, with internet research, if I put in the effort.  However it probably would be the quickest and best way for me to get started.  

And Pac thanks for the offer, once I get started so I'm not completely embarrassed I'll have to take you up on that offer.  But I live close to burns park and they have a range with 10,20,30,and 40 yd field tip targets so I'm going to get started practicing there.  

Oh one more thing, what's a good material to use when shooting off the shelf? I have heard of the soft side of velcro,any use it or know something better?

Offline RecurveHunter01

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 01:17:00 PM »
Another thing, do you guys advocate canting the bow while shooting instinctively?  It seems like it would help see (and help shooting out of a climber stand because the long limbs) but might just be another thing to try to keep consistent.

Offline rnharris

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 01:30:00 PM »
sounds like you just need to get out there and shoot lots of arrows,practice consistant anchor and release,sounds like we shoot alot alike i anchor the same and shoot split finger,you will find that when you have shot lot's arrows that you will develope a natural cant to the bow!

if you plan on hunting out of stands take the stand you will hunt out of and shoot lot's of arrows out of it at all angles it's really the only way to get good at it,good luck!
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Offline MSwickard

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 01:43:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RecurveHunter01:
 
1.  First off what is a good broadhead/field tip target that can take a lot of shots and is not overly priced?

2.  I like the idea of shooting off the shelf but I'm obsessed with the idea of achieving as much speed as possible from my bow, and I worry about fletching clearance.  Although I wonder if with archer paradox if a correctly tuned set up would clear it or not.  

3.  I have tried tuning my setup based off of online reading but I think hearing the difference in brace height is hard and bareshaft tuning to be a major hassle but I got to where it was effective.  

4.  I like durability of carbons but I have always had to buy weight tubes for them to get them to ~500 grains for deer hunting.  I don't like the tubes but might be the best option.

5.  I shoot split finger with index over the nock, and always draw my index finger to the corner of my mouth.  Is that good or is it too low or too short like not maxing the draw I could get ( I Like Speed     :)  ) is it too inconsistent since you can move your mouth and finger?

6.  And finally how do I practice, start close and pick a spot and shoot until I group decent and move out?  Eventually try stump shooting?  

And Finally I live in little rock so if anyone wants to show a newb how it's done here's your chance.  And sorry for the excessive post, I'm just excited about starting to master a new hobby!
1. There are a lot to choice from or you can make your own. Do a search on targets.

2. First off get over your obsession with speed.  You are not shooting a compound with 350 gr arrows.  When using feather fletching it works well shooting off the shelf.  If you are not using feather fletching (vanes) then you need an elevated rest.

3&4  You do not need weight tubes.  With carbons one can get heavy arrows by loading up the point weight.  I'm shooting 29.5" carbons w. 100 gr insert, 125 gr adapter and 160 gr head.  678 gr arrow.

As for arrow tuning best bet is bareshaft planing.  DO a search or go to Adcocks website.

5.That is fine if it is comfortable for you.  Get over the speed thing!

6. Start close and pick a spot then work your way to longer distances once your comfort level increases.  Practice makes perfect.

Offline Friends call me Pac

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2010, 01:44:00 PM »
I don't worry about canting.  What I mean is I don't think about holding the bow just so.  I just hold it where it feels most natural.  I hunt from a climber too and using a long bow has never been an issue.

I also shoot split finger and anchor at the corner of my mouth so we are simular there.

I started shooting trad about 3 years ago.  Best thing to help my shooting was blank bale practice.  It developed muscle memory and really helped ne get the feel for a correct shot.
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Offline RecurveHunter01

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2010, 06:32:00 PM »
Really?, when I first practiced shooting my recurve out of my climber the bottom limb kept hitting the the little guard thing on the seat that helps secure you from falling.  I was shooting straight vertical though, since I was using a sight and pins.  

And i was exaggerating the speed part, obviously if I like recurves I'm not that into speed.  I just want the flattest shot possible.

And as for buying plenty of arrows and getting started that sounds great but i have to get the spine right first

Offline sputterman

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2010, 11:47:00 PM »
Have fun or hang the bow up, dont think to much let your sub conteous take over. Stump shooting is your best practice cause you see your target pull up and smoke it. Less thinking the better. Your subconeous brain tells you what to do and if your conteous brain interfears its creates problems. let her eat and have fun.


conteous brain ='s 5ft away from ur blank bale and practice. did I mention fun fun fun.
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Offline RecurveHunter01

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2010, 04:05:00 PM »
I've been shooting a lot.  form is getting more consistent, but something that I know i still change up is my thumb and pinky positions on my drawing hand.  I've switched to a deeper hook shooting style because my hand an fingers were starting to hurt when I was drawing with the string on the outside of the first joint and now I have it in the pad of my middle finger between the first two joints.  I was wondering if anyone holds the top of their pinky with the thumb while drawing that way the thumb is consistently in the same place and a more reliable anchor that way.  And if that sounds like a good system... Also I've noticed my 55lb bow makes learning proper form hard after shooting like 15 or so arrows but my only other option is a 25 # bow.  Is that too light to even mess with?

Offline s_mcflurry

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2010, 04:57:00 PM »
I touch my thumb and pinky.  I never really thought about it in terms of consistency...it just felt good to me.  Now that I think about it, I guess I use my thumb joint as an anchor rather than my knuckle.  So, in that sense, if I touch my pink and thumb in a consistent way, my anchor will be more consistent.

Also, 25# is perfect for form work.
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Offline RocketDog

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2010, 01:52:00 PM »
The 25# bow will be fine for form work, but your hunting arrows will fly funny from it.  You might buy 1/2 doz arrows for the 25#'er just for form work.

You can get carbon arrows in a variety of gpi weights.  Some like adding weight to the front, some like keeping the weight spread out (tubes).  You might consider going to a carbon/aluminum shaft for greater weight (such as Axis FMJ).  Check out some posts on Front Of Center (FOC) percentages and see the effects of overloading the front end.

Instinctive shooting is what happens when you have learned what good form is, figure out a sequence for your entire shot from nocking the arrow to post-release, then practice that sequence until you do it automatically.  When you do everything right without thinking, you are shooting instinctively.  It takes lots of practice.

Shoot seriously at distances you are comfortable with, but always include several rounds at longer distances to get used to them and to make shorter distances seem easier.  If you want to shoot comfortably and consistently at 20 yds, include a lot of shooting at 30 in your practices.  Shoot at small spots rather than BIG spots.

Most of the people in the world shoot split finger with their index finger at the corner of their mouth.  Good way to shoot.

If you are going to shoot from a stand, practice from a stand as much as possible.

Tuning the bow/arrow combination will result in maximum speed for your setup.  Most trad shooters shoot off the shelf, but some prefer a raised rest.  Just a matter of taste.  See if you can find a 12 strand B50 string for your bow -- might add some speed is the string you have has more strands.  You can't tune a bow perfectly until your form is consistent, so get as close as you can and keep working on form.  Practice, practice, practice!

The right brace height will affect arrow flight, bow performance, hand shock, and noise.  Shoot without silencers on the string to find the right brace.  Most bows are pretty quiet without silencers when tuned well.  Size and weight of silencer will affect speed.  Catwhiskers take off a couple feet per second, big fur silencers may take 5 or 6 feet per second.

Invest in a good field point target for your thousands of practice shots, then get one of the inexpensive, heavy, closed cell foam targets for broadheads.  If you get everything tuned pretty well, shoot a field point, then a few broadheads to see if they hit the same spot.  The foam will last a fairly long time.  No target will last very long with broadheads.

Proper form may have a few personal touches.  The more you practice, the more your personal style will conform to accepted "proper" form.

Canting the bow is a personal choice at accepted hunting distances (<30).  It may be necessary from a stand.  If you start shooting longer distances you will probably start holding the bow closer to vertical.
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Offline RocketDog

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2010, 01:55:00 PM »
Industrial strength velcro is good for both arrow shelf and strike plate. (Walmart craft department).  Strike plate can be almost anything if you like the looks.
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Offline Ragnarok Forge

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2010, 07:07:00 PM »
You can definately learn to trad shoot on your own.  You can also make a whole lot of bad habits out of learning that way.  I am breaking a few of those right now.  $250 for a day or two with Rick Welch is cheap insurance to make you a much better archer with a good foundation for hunting big game this season.
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Offline seabass

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Re: New Instinctive shooter Advice
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2010, 10:54:00 PM »
just keep practicing.shooting instinctive is not as hard as it seems.with practice,one day it will come natural.i shot for a full year before i became confidant enough to shoot at a live animal.3d shoots are a great place to practice.good luck,steve

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