Tuning Woes

[DaxE]

About a month ago I decided I was going to give wood  a try for the first time. I have been shooting carbons and never bare shaft or paper tuned. I messed with my nock and point weight until they seemed to be flying great and have been shooting that combo ever since.

Well I contacted Fletcher here on the forums and after a few emails we decided the best thing to do was for him to send me some test shafts and shoot on paper to find my correct spine.

First couple of arrows it was showing nock high. so I decided to go back to my carbons and get the nock issue fixed before continuing with spine testing. Well I have now spent about 2 hours shooting with my nock set from 1/8" to 1-1/4" and it shows nock high every time.

The bow is a McCullough Griffin 60" 53# at my 30" draw. I am shooting 3 under.

The picture I am attaching shows what the tears look like with my nock set at 1/8" thru 7/8" with a 1/8" change per shot.

 

Thanks
Dax

[Old York]

Call me crazy , but is your cock feather straight down on your arrows?

Are you shooting with bow straight up and down?
Off the shelf?

How far from the drawn arrow point is the paper?

[DaxE]

No my cock feather is out like it should be. Yes I am shotting with the bow straight up and down.

I started about 6 feet from the target. Then moved back to about 12 feet where this picture was taken. I also went ahead and shot one at 10 yards to make sure with same results.

Thanks,
Dax

[moebow]

"so I decided to go back to my carbons and get the nock issue fixed"

I'd suggest that your nock point for woods MAY be different than for carbons.  Different shaft diameter, different recovery time, etc.  Find and set your nock height for the arrow you want to shoot and expect that height to be some different for different arrows.

[DaxE]

Originally posted by moebow:
"so I decided to go back to my carbons and get the nock issue fixed"

I'd suggest that your nock point for woods MAY be different than for carbons.  Different shaft diameter, different recovery time, etc.  Find and set your nock height for the arrow you want to shoot and expect that height to be some different for different arrows.

I get what you are saying but if I can not get my nock correct with the carbons, do you think I will be able to with the wood shafts? I will give it a try and see what happens.

Thanks,
Dax

[moebow]

DaxE,

Short answer: Yes!  You will find that wood is generally less critical to tuning problems than carbon or aluminum.  I shoot wood and Aluminum and have little trouble getting them tuned.  I know many find that to be true with carbon too but that has not been my experience.  Carbon really has me "buffaloed" and I have LONG since given up on them.

[DaxE]

Well I went out and played with the woods for awhile. I started back at about 12 feet from the paper and shot the 7 test arrows. The paper looked exactly as it did above with every shot!! It showed no difference between the spine. Just the same exact tear as above. The arrows spine from 73# to 85#  in 2# increments.

I decided to back up to 10 yards and shoot a few arrows again. This time I started to see a difference. I got the spine down I think but I am still showing nock high, but only by about 3/4" tear.

I am wondering if I actually the spine good or if 10 yards is to far and the fletched arrow has enough time to correct itself? Another weird thing is I never get a nock right tear when I go stiffer on the spine. It just goes from being left to center then back to left...that is when I start with the 73# and work my way up. 73,75,77 tear left then 79 is straight and 81,83 and 85 tear left again. All the arrows are fletched the same, same length and same weight point.

Thanks,
Dax

[moebow]

Not familiar with the Griffin but sounds like a recurve with a 60" length.  Also assuming that it's a center shot bow, you may be over spined.  A too stiff arrow can show nock high while showing correct left/right flight in a cut to center bow.  You're in the vicinity of 20 to 30# above bow weight at your draw length.  Also, are your spine ratings measured on 26 or 28" centers?  If on 26" centers, add 5# per inch for arrow length over 28", and 5# if you have a fast flight string and that would put you in the 65-70# spine range.

[Fletcher]

Just for grins, Dax, try a few shots with split finger.

I believe your Griffin is cut close, but not quite to center.  I'm sure it isn't cut all the way to center shot.

[Old York]

Here's something to at least try -

Add a second nock set and go through the paper testing again. The second nock set can be a simple adjustable "tie-in" type, doesn't have to be the brass kind. Good luck!

[xtrema312]

The bottom nock set is important if you can move your arrow up and down on the string with an arrow nocked.  That can cause your arrow to slide down and bounce off the shelf no matter what height you set the nock.

Try shooting paper a little closer to see if you can spot the changes in spine.  I think you can get an arrow that is in correction and it looks to be right, but at a different distace you may see a change.  The arrow may show stiff  if you give it less time to correct.

[DaxE]

Old York, I have been using a tied nock for easy adjustment but will add a bottom nock and see how that goes.

xtrema312, When I move closer no matter what I try, spine or nock position, it shows high nock weak shaft tear.

Going to get back out today and try a few more things and will report back.

Thanks,
Dax

[DaxE]

Well I tied a bottom nock point on and went out and tried some more.

I must have been slipping because I got most of the nock high issue worked out. Still getting a 3/4"-1" tear nock high but it is much more consistent now. Oh yeah, I did give split finger a few shots and it did not seem to improve the nock high.

What I really dont understand is how that was affecting the spine so much. I am now able to show spine stiff when I get into the 80# spine arrows. I stat with 73# showing weak work up to 77-79 showing good and then start to show stiff when I hit the 80's. I am really surprised how much a few pounds in spine makes.

I would also like to mention that when I first talked to Fletcher about wood shafts and asked him what spine he thought I would be at, he recommended 78#. Well he was spot on. The man definitely knows his spines.

Thanks for all the help.

Dax

[WOUNDED EAGLE]

Move your bottom nock dwn. 1/16 more dwn.because when you drew your bow the nock pinches and will cause it to put a slite downward bow in the arrow and when you relece the string the arrow will hop off the rest.... then you might half to tweek it a bit to get final adjustment.

[DaxE]

Originally posted by WOUNDED EAGLE:
Move your bottom nock dwn. 1/16 more dwn.because when you drew your bow the nock pinches and will cause it to put a slite downward bow in the arrow and when you relece the string the arrow will hop off the rest.... then you might half to tweek it a bit to get final adjustment.

I could see the pinch causing some issues. Will definitely move bottom nock to give some wiggle room in there.

Thanks,
Dax

[L. Harris]

A new outsider looking in, man you guys have some great tuning knowledge here!!

[Smallwood]

http://www.acsbows.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/tuninglongbowsandrecurves.pdf

[toolmaker]

I have to agree with Meobow that dynamic spine affects archers paradox in both the horizontal and the virtical planes.  Add some weight to your heads and see if there's a difference.  It worked wonders for me after a second nockset had limited success.

[jerseyboy]

Is your bow tillered for three under?