Problems?

[swampthing]

How are ya,
  Is this enough back tension? I understand you don't want'em squeezed too close together, for me this is 28" draw

[swampthing]

To much cant? string is a little tourqued.

[BobCo 1965]

From what I can see, your tension looks to be pretty much in the upper back and shoulders. What you want to do is concentrate on the lower ledge of the draw side scapula (if can get someone to touch the lower scapula while drawing it will help concentration). Bring that point down and over to the spine as far as possible. Keep the bow side scapula extended toward the target (you should feel a stretch under your arm).

[swampthing]

Would you say this bow is a bit heavy for me? She's 50#@28"

[Ragnarok Forge]

Your left shoulder is raised and tightened.  It needs to be relaxed and down to help with consistent shooting.  Push your left hand into a wall with light weight and lower and raise your bow arm shoulder.  You will feel it when you relax and let that shoulder drop into the socket.  Having it raised leaves your muscles fighting to hold the bow in place instead of letting bone to bone contact holding the bow in place on the draw stroke.

The cant angle looks fine.  Your canting your neck and head.  You want to cant from the waist in an even line thru the top of your head.  canting just the head creates tension in your muscles that affects consistent form.

The goal is to make yourself look like Terry's form clock with everything at full draw in a straigh line and lined up with everything else.

[BobCo 1965]

Originally posted by swampthing:
Would you say this bow is a bit heavy for me? She's 50#@28"

From the pitures it is difficult to say. The answer is also very subjective depending on who you ask. Some will say it is only the first shot that will count with a hunting bow, so as long as it is accurate, use it. IMO, you should be able to be in a hold position with your hunting bow weight for at least 15 seconds without loosing any back tension or collapsing. Another decent test is having the ability to have your bow and bow arm in an upright position and draw to hold for a 5 count, let up, then repeat without resting (bow still up) for a total of 5 or 6 reps.

[Ravenhood]

You certainly look strong enough for a 50# bow.

[zetabow]

[/QUOTE]Another decent test is having the ability to have your bow and bow arm in an upright position and draw to hold for a 5 count, let up, then repeat without resting (bow still up) for a total of 5 or 6 reps. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Of course if you cannot do this rep test the bow is too heavy for you, the good news is if you do this exercise several times everyday it will only be a couple of weeks before you're able to do it.  

[scriv]

From the first photo it appears your head is cocked over a bit further than I'd like and maybe the chin a bit too low.  Also your bow arm looks like you're using all muscle to hold the bow out there.  If you hold (empty)your bow arm out and bend it at the elbow and your hand comes back and hits you in the head the the elbow joint need a bit of adjustment.  Rotate it so it is more vertical and the hand should come back accross your chest.  This will place the draw weight on your skeltal system rather than soft tissue.  That will make you more consistent and not tire so quickly.  This info can be found in Ruth Rowe's book "Fundamentals of recurve archery"  She shoots recurve but it translates to longbows well. Stand up a bit and/or raise your head and I'll bet you get another inch out of your draw and attain the lower scapular tension that someone else mentioned.  Longer draw is a longer stroke and more power!  Good luck man.  dave

[swampthing]

Now I tought we were "suposed" to use muscle to push toward target and to draw away from target? are you saying... "not" to do that? As in just let the weight "load up" on my "form" and let the bones maintain the draw, kind of like standing up, one does not push through the feet as they stand they just use the skeleton as a frame.

[moebow]

Swampthing,  What scriv is saying is that you do push the bow arm but with the shoulder and bow side scapula.  Your arm muscles (triceps) and bow forearm should be as relaxed as possible.  You are supporting the bow weight on your bones from the base of the thumb through the ulna then the humorous into the bow shoulder.  It's the shoulder that should be pressing toward the target.  Another plus with relaxed muscles in your arm is that it is easier to hold steady on target this way than to try to muscle your way to steadiness.

[scriv]

Originally posted by moebow:
Swampthing,  What scriv is saying is that you do push the bow arm but with the shoulder and bow side scapula.  Your arm muscles (triceps) and bow forearm should be as relaxed as possible.  You are supporting the bow weight on your bones from the base of the thumb through the ulna then the humorous into the bow shoulder.  It's the shoulder that should be pressing toward the target.  Another plus with relaxed muscles in your arm is that it is easier to hold steady on target this way than to try to muscle your way to steadiness.

That's what I'm saying.

[BobCo 1965]

Originally posted by swampthing:
Now I tought we were "suposed" to use muscle to push toward target and to draw away from target? are you saying... "not" to do that? As in just let the weight "load up" on my "form" and let the bones maintain the draw, kind of like standing up, one does not push through the feet as they stand they just use the skeleton as a frame.

For a balanced shot, the energy expended should be equal on both sides of the spine. The bow side will have more of an isometric type of muscle contraction (not much movement). If you keep the shoulder down (it is easier to put it in position before the shot and just use deltoid muscles to raise the bow), and think of pushing toward the target with the pivot point of the grip you should be OK and using the right muscles. Yes, there will be some tension in the tricep (isometric). Once the bow is up, there should not be additioanal tension put into the bow arm deltoids. Personally, from what I can see in the pictures, I do not believe that your bow arm is a weak point for you. Elbow rotation seems to be good. The test mentioned is a good one though to make sure (elbow rotation).

I'll PM you a couple photos that you may also may find useful.

bob

[BobCo 1965]

Originally posted by zetabow:

Another decent test is having the ability to have your bow and bow arm in an upright position and draw to hold for a 5 count, let up, then repeat without resting (bow still up) for a total of 5 or 6 reps. [/b][/QUOTE]


Of course if you cannot do this rep test the bow is too heavy for you, the good news is if you do this exercise several times everyday it will only be a couple of weeks before you're able to do it.      [/QB][/QUOTE]


Yup, those can be used as excercises for strength, endurance, and power. But I would caution that a full stretching routine be used in conjuction with them. Also strength can increase fast, so be disiplined to keep the routine slow and consistant. If used improperly they can easily cause muscle strains.   :(

[AllenR]

Excellent advice above.

Only thing I can add is to use longer arrows.  

If you put a broadhead on that one, it will mess up your draw length.

Allen

[scriv]

BobCo is on it.  Is it more than a coincidence that we are both NAA Intermediate Instructors?

How are you shooting with the form you show in the pictures?  Are you experiencing any pain areas or tightness after a long shooting session?  What has been your goal up to now for your form and your shooting?  Are you looking for a more fluid shot while hunting or tighter groups on a target?

[kennyb]

Gentlemen: this has been some great advice to us "new" shooters! I have been using G.F. Asbell's books/DVD to help me learn all summer and it has been fun! I have been having good results and am shooting real well of late. To me, it's nice to have other's opinion to improve your shooting and give you a fresh new perspective. Thanks guys and good luck "Swampthing"
Kennyb

[Whump]

Whump Sez; Think about holding a big fat grapefruit between your shoulder blades--that's back tension. As far as cant goes---If your arrows are spined right for your bow you cannot cant the bow too much. Here is what is happening when cant changes point of impact. If you are shooting too stiff an arrow, as you roll your bow more toward the horizontal then your arrows start changing from  hitting left of the mark for a right handed shooter to an arc going to a high position. The more you cant the more the arrow moves from the left and higher also. If the arrow is spined correctly the impact will not change as you roll the bow into a cant. So if your arrows are changing their impact point you need to look for a spine situation. Nobody can say if you can shoot 50lbs but you--if you are not struggling with the bow then go with it. Torque--the more you raise your elbow on your draw arm the more pressure you put on your ring finger which causes--string torque, so try your best to keep that elbow down as close to level with your shoulder as possible, this is also where back tension comes into play. If you try to draw the bow with just your arm you will have a high elbow.That's about it--now quit making love to that long bow and shoot it. Hunt safe.

[swampthing]

Fluid hunting style is the goal.
    Impossible to keep draw hand, elbow and shoulders inline, impossible.  In order to have the draw hand and elbow inline, these parts will be above shoulder level, has to, my anchor is NOT my neck and shoulder region its the side of my face. So if I stand up, keep my head up, and draw to anchor, draw hand+elbow will be above shoulders, not pointed above, but, above the shoulder line and horror'zontal. Does this lessen draw hand/arm tension, is it safe for shoulders and elbow?