Traditional: Misunderstanding What Was.

[George D. Stout]

Some of us who have been around since the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria sailed, are growing a little weary of the ignorance of our archery history; particularly what was mainstream in archery and bowhunting many decades ago.
Todays newborn traditionalist wants to decide and dictate what is and what is not traditional in archery and bowhunting. And, I can understand that it is indeed new to many folks. We've established a whole generation that only knows what has happened in their lifetime. The sad part is they really don't want to look past the date of their birth and realize there was a living, breathing society that was there and did that.

What is most amazing to me, is the loathing of so-called traditionalists, toward bow sights and other things that were quite prevalent forty years ago. Especially in light of the fact that many folks aren't well adapted to shooting a bow in the raw.

I think it's time to look at what was traditional in 1967, as opposed to 2007: For instance, the average bowhunter was using some kind of sight on his or her bow; whether it was a Merrill Heart Shot, purchased at the local sporting goods store, or a match stick, taped on to accomodate a certain distance.

Archers and bowhunters were using sights since the 1930's, and by the 1960's there were more who did than who didn't. I was considered an oddball for shooting without them in 1967 and was just one of only two guys at our local archery club who shot barebow. Sights were the tradition in the 1960's.

Archers of the 60's were concerned with hitting what they were shooting at, and were not concerned whether or not their brothers and sisters would condemn them for not being of a certain ilk. Bowhunters, especially, were under scritiny....as they have been since the first modern bow season was established, so it was important that they be effective. The bow sight could make a very average shot a good shot and that is why ninety percent of the archers and hunters used them. It wasn't about personna.....it was about effect.

I think this would be a good time to get our heads out of the sand and become more accepting of real traditional equipment. Some folks will never enjoy the ability to shoot well barebow, and they should not be castigated for that; rather they should be encouraged to use the traditional bow sight and learn the joys of accuracy. It's pretty pious of us to think there is only one way to do it....and it's historically inaccurate to boot.

Those who want to remain steadfast to the barebow mantra, by all means do, but also realize it's not for everyone...and those who can't are no less traditional than you.

I don't use bow sights, but I see they should be used more by those who are turning, or returning to traditional archery, and no archer should be making them feel inferior, just because they aren't doing it the way we "think" it should be done. A sight isn't wheels or let off....it's a long way from it. About sixty years, as a matter of fact.

[OzarkRamblr]

Well said, as usual. Thanks Mr. Stout.

[Flatstick]

Well said George!

There are "traditional" archers out there that should really have sights on there bow,,but they are too scared to do so because of what the "others" might say! Ones equipment should be what they are most comfortable & effective with. If that is a recurve or longbow with sights then so be it, equipment is a personal choice.

I hunt with selfbows,cane arrows & trade-points that I make myself. Not because they are "primitive" or "traditional" but because I like to make them! But I do most of my hunting from portable treestands, blinds and such. I use store bought calls and some camo. There are those that will scoff at me and say thats not right,,but it is what works for ME. In my opinion the "tradition" in traditional archery stands more for " traditional values,ethics,and companionships".

Thanks for getting out the soapbox George. Who's next?

[Moengo]

I haven't noticed people on this forum being "castigated" because they use sights on their bows. I have noticed people on this forum to be pretty much accepting of what a person likes to shoot. Anything contrary to this would be the exception rather than the rule; IMHO.
I also think bowhunters in 2007 are just as much concerned with hitting what they are shooting at as those were in the 60's.
What I have noticed, (on other sites) is those who are contemptious of those who shoot barebow and especially those who choose to shoot instictive.

[longstick]

I probably should have some ...but....NOT! Aint gonna happen

[Roadkill]

well said, Mr Stout.  If you buy an older recurve, you'll often notice the sight holes.  I shot aN Indian in the 60's without sights.  For those who don't recall or weren't around, They used to take a field-any field and put up those round mats and shoot away at them on Saturdays-men a nd women.  They shot at max 80 yds and many used low poundage bows with sights. It was fun.
I agree that some newcomers have a differeing view of what our heritage-just weren't here to live it.

[George D. Stout]

Moenga....this forum is one of the best for not having issues about this subject.  I originally posted this on another that is not so accepting. I feel, however, that there many here who can learn from what some of us have experienced.  Some songs just need sung every now and then.  

[John C Keith]

George well put.

I think the overall message applies to all aspects of legal hunting.  From gun hunters, dog hunters, trappers, compounds, etc.  We all need to accept each other in the means we choose to use, as long as they are legal.

While I may choose not to use dogs, or choose to shoot a bare bow, my choice does not give me any grounds to chastise or tell others how they should hunt.  We do not have to sit by the campfire and sing songs, but we all need to make a unified front against attacks on our sport.

Driving divisions among hunters is a slippery slope we are already heading toward.  United we stand, divided we may only meet each other in the meat section of the grocery store.

[Adirondackman]

George,
 Excellent post.Thanks for your input.

[Son of Texas]

Well said,Great post!!!

[drewsbow]

Very well said George :0)

[KPaul]

Thank you Mr Stout.

[aromakr]

George:
Although I agree with the concept of your post, I found just the opposite (bowsights) on the west coast. The rare one was the guy using sights. Sights did not really come into use until the compound raised its head.
Bob

[George D. Stout]

Bob....I think the western folks held on more than anyone.  Just goes to show the dichotomy of styles within the sport.  East of the Mississippi, it was a different story.

[jeff w]

I have bought/seen plenty of old bows from out west for sale on the auction site that had holes driled in them for sights.

[ironrhino]

George... thanks a bunch for your post... after an incident this season where a doe got spine shot, I decided that my shooting was not 100% good enough so i threw an old fred bear pin sight on my recurve for the season rather than pick up my wheels again.

But i did have some concerns about how it would go over with the gang... i should have known better!!!!

Thanks again, RHino

[Rob DiStefano]

IMO, archery and bowhunting began another skin shedding change as early as the late 40's.  

What I noticed in the Nor'East was a changeover from self and backed longbows to composite wood/glass recurves.  

Bounty and innovation abounded in the US and recurve development was in full swing.  The efficiency and flat out speed of these kinda engines just made sense to paper punchers and hunters alike.  

My Dad was an archer and bowhunter, and he turned me onto Howard Hill, and the longbow, in '55.  My archery bible was LE Stemmler's 1953 edition of his " The Essentials of Archery " (go on, click on the link and enjoy!) - real heady stuff for a young lad of ten, and full of the kinda bows I'd seen Flynn and company touting in "Robin Hood" - and the bowhunting tackle and info was read and reread 'till the print nearly melted off the pages.  We had longbows and cedar arras.  There was never talk about bow sights since we were rovers and hunters, not target archers.  

I believe that the increased public interest in target archery, from a non-hunting standpoint, and the use of sights, trickled over to bowhunting.  Hey, it was a post-war decade of "innovation" and "space age development", and Madison Avenue marketing hype was blossoming.  The more radical the idea the more it seemed to garner interest and even popularity - and this doesn't mean that the "new idea" was ultimately the best, or even better.

You stick a hatpin into yer hunting stickbow's riser and use it as a sight of sorts and call that "traditional", I've got no problem with that at all.  You stick on a Chek-It sight with a bubble crosshair 2x scope with windage and elevation gears and I'll argue that ain't traditional bowhunting.

Same could be said about longbow design - there are those (namely, the characters that run the IFAA) who'll tell ya that a modern hybrid longbow is NOT a longbow, that only straight limbed or "D" braced longbows ARE longbows.  I've got my opinions 'bout that, too.

So, "traditional" is at best an ambiguous word that ultimately you will define yerself.  Whether or not others will agree with you is something to either ponder or dismiss.

I instinctively shoot a take down 3pc hybrid longbow and carbon arras.  I am a traditional bowhunter.  YMMV.

[George D. Stout]

Rob....there's quite a lot between a hatpin and a bubble crosshair 2X scope.  But that's how we seem to recognize things....either one extreme or another.  You know as much as anyone there's an in-between in everthing 8^).

Sometimes the best labels are no labels.  Labels, I believe, are for clothing.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by George D. Stout:
Rob....there's quite a lot between a hatpin and a bubble crosshair 2X scope.  But that's how we seem to recognize things....either one extreme or another.  

The sight thingy is easy for me to suss out - a fixed pin or two versus a movable pin (or scope or whatever the heck).  :cool:

You know as much as anyone there's an in-between in everthing 8^).

Oh yeah ...  :D  

Sometimes the best labels are no labels.  Labels, I believe, are for clothing.

Impossible not to label *everything* - in our society, that's a way of life - whether or not one choose's to deal with label's is just another freedom of choice here in the good ol' US of A (well, at least for now    :rolleyes:  )

....

[BOFF]

Thanks George,

I feel we all need to stick together regardless of traditional, compound, crossbow, rifle, whatever. Doesn't mean you have to follow suit, or agree with someone's values/morals, but have respect for what someone else decides to use as a weapon or hobby. As Sportsmen, if we don't pull together, we all will lose in the long run.