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Author Topic: Critique please good or bad  (Read 871 times)

Offline Erick S

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Critique please good or bad
« on: October 02, 2010, 04:19:00 PM »
I am new to Trad gear, I got my LB last month and have been out almost everyday practicing. I have read and watched so many post on here about form that my head is starting to spin. Everyday I read you should do this or maybe try this, well after reading and trying and reading and trying some more this is the form that I am starting to get comfortable with. Now I would like for you guys to review it and let me know if I am doing anything that is going to cause problems down the road. I would like all critiques positive or negative. Below are the links (I hope) three 40 sec videos.

  Side view  

  Rear view  

  front view  

The bow is an Apex Predator R&D 60" 48#@28

Thanks for your time,
Erick

Offline moebow

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 04:41:00 PM »
Erick S,  We'd be glad to help but I for one cannot access your youtube pages.  Can you try again?
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline moebow

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 04:51:00 PM »
I got it to come up,  All I needed was the part that starts with "http..." and ends before "]Side..."

Stand by, and I'll see what I can see.     :)
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline moebow

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 05:18:00 PM »
Erick,

Overall, you look pretty good!  Your bow arm/shoulder is in pretty good position and your string hand stays pretty still on release.

There are three things that stand out to me as I watch the videos.

1.  You are not getting your string arm elbow around behind the arrow -- it is sticking out to your right.  Try to get that elbow and forearm directly in line with the arrow as seen from the back.  You may have to open your shoulders a little to do that but you will NOT have to change your anchor on your face to do it -- it is a rotational movement of your string elbow towards your back.

2.  Your bow hand looks to be too deep into the bow grip.  That is you have it rotated into the grip in a counterclockwise direction.  Try to grip the bow with the base knuckle of your thumb just barely to the right of the bow's center line.  Also REALLY work on not letting that bow move upon release.  You have it jumping around too much.  The change in grip will help this.

3.  A very minor point BUT>>> With a Three under draw, you should not have to hold your index finger up to keep the arrow on the bow! (Frankly, that's the first indicator of a true rookie    :D )  That arrow movement tells me that you are not getting quite as deep a hook as you should be and are not maintaining a very relaxed string wrist and forearm.

Erick, you are doing better than most for just starting don't get discouraged.  And If you can, try to get that target up at about shoulder level and shoot at real close range until you have your form down.  That may not be easy in your back yard there but if you can work that out it will help you by eliminating the need to shoot "downhill" at the target sitting on the ground.

Above all ---- HAVE FUN    :archer2:
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Wapiti Bowman

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 05:37:00 PM »
Erick,

First, let me say that you've really done quite well if you've been able to get to this point without any instruction. You're one who can evidently translate what he reads, sees, and hears, into 'correct' physical skills.

You've selected a slightly 'open' stance which I also happen to use and prefer. While I shoot Mediterannean/split finger, if I were just starting out today, I'd go with the three fingers under, as you have done.

The one area I see that could very possibly cause you problems down the line is the muscle group you 'appear' to be using to hold your draw wt. Here's what I see: In your front angle film strip, there appear to be some draw length variation of about an inch over the four shots?

In your rear angle film strip, your drawing elbow appears to be just 'outside' the desired line from your arrow tip, through your shoulders to your elbow?

In your side angle film strip, while your release hand stays at your face upon release, it appears to be more of what is commonly called a "dead" release. I've seen this form of release used very effectively by some former, top level, professional shooters.

The elbow 'outside' the desired line, coupled with the "dead" release indicates to me that 1) you are very strong and 2) that you're holding your draw wt with your shoulder and upper arm muscles.

The more 'desired' group of muscles to use, not only for drawing but for holding at full draw, are the muscles in your back, more specifically the large, flat trapezius muscles that start at your shoulders and extend down your back on either side of your spine. These are the muscles that one uses to squeeze the shoulder blades together, and that's exactly the feeling you look for when drawing and holding using your back. As has been pointed out by other TG members, technically, the Rhomboid muscles also get into the action, but I'm a believer in the "KISS" principle, so I refer to the Trapezius as the 'primary' back muscle in use.

Why use your back muscles instead of those in your shoulder and arms? Because they're larger and stronger. You're arm muscles are more prone to fatiguing, resulting in collapsing, creeping, and plucking the string,i.e., pulling the string out from your face upon release.

You've done remarkably well. If possible, I'd recommend highly that you take some good instruction to help you refine what appears to be a very sound, shooting foundation.   :clapper:

Offline Apex Predator

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 05:58:00 AM »
Looks great to me buddy, but I'm not the shooting expert!  Sounds like some solid advice above.  

I will say that is one fine looking bow you have there!  :)
I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables!

Offline Erick S

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 05:30:00 PM »
Moebow an Wapiti thanks for the critique. I have read both of your post about 20 times each and have tried to make some changes. I am having a little trouble using my back muscles while pulling the bow. I have tried to rotate my shoulder while at full pull but in order to use the back muscles it seems that I need to anchor as far back as my ear or rotate my head in a back and downward motion, both of with are making my draw length about 1 to 2 inches longer. When I move my head back I lose my sight picture.

Once the weather (rain over 15 inches in a week) breaks for more then a day I will be back at it. Once I make some changes I will re-post with some new video for you to critique.

Once again thank you for your time and comments, I hope to be ready for late season deer, but if not I will be ready next year for sure.

Erick

Offline Erick S

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 05:33:00 PM »
Yes Marty it is one fine looking and sweet shooting bow. I surly can't blame the inconsistencies on the bow or bower.

Erick

Offline moebow

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 05:55:00 PM »
Erick, Use the SAME anchor/Reference that you are currently using.  you do NOT need to pull back to your ear!!!  Try sticking your chest out a little which will cause your elbow to come around behind the arrow. And you will feel your shoulders come into better alignment. DON"T let your string hand move on your face!!!!!!!  It will increase your draw a little but not 2".
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Wapiti Bowman

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 07:00:00 PM »
Erick,

Go to the "search" function, above, center of this forum and enter the words "trapezius muscle". It should take you to a more detailed description of learning to use that muscle.

Offline razorback

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Re: Critique please good or bad
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2010, 07:43:00 PM »
Erick,
I am in no way an expert or even a good shooter, I do how ever teach a lot of kids and adults archery at a YMCA camp. To help with the moving of the elbow into line with the arrow, i have the participants draw a bow without holding one, just fake it. When they have their hand at the anchor point, I have them push their chest out and move their elbw back, without moving the anchor point. Helps them visualize the needed movement and use of the back muscles. If it helps get a light weight bow and practice with that.
JMHO and hope it helps a little. I too am enjoying the critique by the guys who really know what they are doing.
Keep the wind in your face and the sun at your back.

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