Grip question

[moebow]

I use the same grip on all bows.  You will find, I think, that the larger pistol grip styles found on recurves mostly will take some "playing" with to get it right.  The basic theory doe not change.  Regardless of the style, try to get that center of pressure from the bow grip into the meaty part of the base of your thumb and the life line to the side as shown in the pictures.

[razorback]

Thanks for the advise, will be spending a lot of time this winter working on my technique. Will have many questions as time goes on

[razorback]

Arne, I noticed that you have,what seems to be, a lot of pressure on your little finger. Is this part of the grip or just your personal style. I have been trying to keep my fingers relaxed and even off the bow.

[moebow]

razor,  There's not as much pressure as it looks like but I see what you are asking about.  Fingers relaxed is what you want but don't keep them off the bow.  That leads to unwanted tension in your bow forearm.  Some will curl the little finger under and some even curl the little finger and the ring finger under.  Once the bow puts pressure into the base of the thumb, you can specifically relax the bow hand even more.  Just keep your fingers on the bow so you don't start "clutching" or grasping the bow to catch it on the shot.

Try this little experiment.  Hold your bow hand out and TOTALLY relax it.  Your fingers should take a naturally curled position.  Now with your right hand, feel how relaxed the tendons in your bow forearm are.  Now open your bow hand.  Feel the tendons take on tension?  That is tension that is unneeded and really unwanted.

Finally, you must find a grip that is comfortable and repeatable. As I said earlier, keep the center of pressure in the base of your thumb and the thumb knuckle just to the right of the center line as shown in the pictures.  Just don't get yourself in the position of having to catch the bow upon the shot.  Some shooters will use a finger sling to secure the bow but I personally don't want to use any more equipment than I have too.

[Ralphie]

Really great and clear photos. I appreciate you attention to detail.
Ralph

[BRITTMAN]

Great info on hand placement , love tradgang

[two4hooking]

Are there any tricks to keep me from "grabbing" the bow on release?  If I try the grip Moe recommends I always find myself grabbing (habits).  If I shoot by touching my thumb with my index finger around the throat of the grip (OK sign) I find I have less torque but I would rather grip with the natural curl?????

[moebow]

If you have light tension in your hand, you should not have to "catch" the bow on release.  The fingers will already be on the back of the bow and will simply hold it.  If you have a problem with the idea of the security of the bow, you might try a finger sling until you feel more confident that you won't drop the bow.  I suggest that if you are "touching your thumb and forefinger" you have your hand way too deep in the bow  and frankly, that is a source of torque not a reduction of torque.

[TSP]

Nice photos and description and I do enjoy Moebow's tutorials.  But, not every seemingly correct and theoretically sound approach works well for every single shooter.  If it did we'd all look and shoot exactly the same...and be Robin Hood in short order.  How boring would that be?  (no offense to compound shooters)      :p        

Hand placement is just one component of consistency and consistency is mostly about getting and keeping good alignment between the target, arrow (eye), and drawing elbow.  If your bow hand is unnaturally 'crooked' on the grip, or allows horizontal or lateral bow movement before the arrow leaves the shelf, or needs to be adjusted to 'feel right' or to hold the bow weight while you draw to anchor, or feels 'shocky' when you release the string, then it's probably not the right hand placement for that particular bow.  A straight unmoving line from target to drawing elbow...simple concept, not-so-simple process, but not rocket science.  Tempering science and observation with LOTS of common sense has it's advantages.

Whatever hand-to-bow placement helps you to get and maintain the line is what you are after.  It may mean a loose grip, as many have found works best for them.  Or it may mean a much firmer grip, as many others have found effective (including me).  Pick what works for you by testing various approaches and don't forget to try them out under the circumstances you will normally be shooting (target line, treestand, kneeling, sitting, gloves on or off, bow quiver on or off, etc).  An open mind and objective testing works better than a paint-by-someone-else's-numbers approach.  

Tweaking your form components is a 'hands on' job that requires a careful process to be sure...but there's no need to make it harder than it is and no need to depend on someone's else's 'right' to find your own.    

[moebow]

The pictures I posted here were a suggestion of a grip to try.  I said in the first picture that; "Here come 7 pictures showing a way to hold the bow grip."  A WAY!  All the rest of my input to this was in describing or explaining how this grip works or answering questions about it.  It was NOT EVER implied that this "is how you have to do it!"

I have said many times and will always maintain that the form/technique SUGGESTIONS I make are to try to get folks to THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY DO AND HOW THEY DO IT --NOT to say "This is how you HAVE to do it!"

Seems as though we have firmly established the disclaimer on this forum (shooter's)that  there are many ways to do something and no one way will work for everybody.

[TSP]

Moebow, I understand what you are trying to do.  And as I said earlier, I basically like (and agree with...mostly) your teachings.  But when 'this is one way' approaches are as finely detailed and pictured in their presentations as yours are, the result can easily be mistaken as the 'mostly right' way, especially by beginners.  Not intended perhaps, but nevertheless a very real possibility for those looking for an answer or fix.  Don't take my post the wrong way. As you said, the goal is to make folks think.  I'm simply suggesting that they think outside the 'pretty pictures and detailed descriptions' boxes (regardless of who offers them), use them for ideas, but rely mostly on their OWN ability to test for, observe and learn from their OWN trials and errors.  Sorry if you took it differently.

[Javi]

So we should dumb down our suggestions...

[Green]

This is what has come to irk me about the shooter's forum. A member comes with a question after their own trial/error methods fail to produce the desired results.  A knowledgeable, and qualified member takes his time and expertise to help, sometimes complete with photos/videos, etc. of ONE way to do something and somebody always has to jump on that person even though the caveat is well written that this is but one way to do something.  

Trad Gang is a very respectful place that we all come to for learning and enjoyment.  If you have a different suggestion, offer it in a helpful manner. If all you wish to do is to belittle those who offer qualified help, then back away from the keyboard.

[NormanDale33]

Moebow, that is a great illustration and I can't wait to try it when I shoot next. Thanks for taking the time to help everyone out.

[see]

Moebow,don't ever back off with your teaching.I admire your tutorials and knowledge.

[JINKSTER]

wow...great pictorial...i was just in the local pro shop yesterday looking at a line of longbows i really like.."bushman longbows" built by a local guy named Steve Jewett..really nice in stockers he has hanging in the shop..was thinking about making one an early christmas present for myself..until i pulled against the grip..just didnt want to "seat" real well..now i'm thinking...is it the grip?..or is it that i'm spoiled by the awesome fitting grip on my Bob Lee TD Recurve and rollie-pollie grips are just the nature of the beast with longbows?..and i wasnt do'in it right?..i dunno..but i do love steve's longbows..just dont know how i'd fair with the grip.  :(

[moebow]

JINKSTER,  The grip I show in this thread is a good one but only you can determine if it is right for you.  I find that it adapts to every bow I shoot.  If you can shoot some of the bows you are admiring and have time to play with your hand on the bow you may find a combination that works for you.  Your comfort and confidence is what will make the grip right for you or not.  If Steve is a "local" for you he may be able to adjust the grip on his bows to your liking too.

[Flingblade]

Thanks for the pictures moebow.  I have been hitting left consistently for awhile now and I think it has something to do with dropping my bow arm or my grip and torque.  I'm going to try this grip and concentrate on relaxing the hand particularly the thumb.  The pics and detailed descriptions are the best way to learn a style and try it out to see if it works for you.  In MBB 4 Darryl Quidort says he grips the bow tight; about like you would choke a snake.  That doesn't work for me.

[cbCrow]

TSP, having been in archery for over 40yrs. in one form or another, it seems to me that it is common knowledge that if you ask for help your going to get a potpourri of ideas coming forth.Anyone that shoots a bow knows this is the reason their are so many books out on the subject of getting a good shot off. So I would have to assume that you, in your superior knowledge also condemn the likes of F. Bear, H Hill, David Miller, G.F.Asbell, Byron Ferguson, etc,and etc, as everyone of them, plus many others, include pictures and dialog in their books. So I must also then assume you are either a fool or you consider your fellow archers as an individuals who cannot think or reason for themselves so you and a few select others must protect them from such things. What Say You TSP!  

[Trad-Man]

moebow...
Great post/thread.  Really nothing more needs to be said.  I really don't think it can be explained or shown any better than what you did.  The pic from below was great.  Peeps need to understand their entire hand is not on the grip.