Instintive shooting ?'s help please

[LinemanARK]

How do you learn to shoot at longer distance's. I have a 55# recurve with 525gn 3555 GT arrows. I don't want to gap shoot I am new to trad so any help would be great.I can shoot 30yds now, but when I back up to 40 my arrow hitts the ground before it gets there. I shoot 3 under and anchor with my pointer finger, if you need more info please let me know.  thanks Mike

[BowsanAiros]

Shooting instinctive at longer distances is the same as short distances "focus on the smallest target you can see"
I shoot pop bottle caps past 40yds, maybe you could try that....

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by rezeen6.5:
 I am new to trad  

That is the issue.....you have to shoot more at longer distances to get better....you are shooting 'short' because you haven't programed your brain for 40 yards and beyond since you are new.

It wont happen over night....and takes commitment and dedication to learn to shoot instinctive at longer distances.

[Wapiti Bowman]

While Terry touched upon the central issue of  learning to shoot any distance instinctively, perhaps you could use a bit more detail: To shoot any particular distance instinctively, your brain has to learn the arc of the arrow required at that distance.  It can only do that with repetitive shooting at that distance, and that can take many hours, days, weeks,or even years. But over time, and with repetition, the brain learns (is programmed, in Terry's words)the arc necessary and will set your bow arm accordingly. One caveat, you have to have vision that is good enough to see the arc of the arrow and its impact point so that the brain can become programmed to that arc at that distance.

You might find G.Fred Asbell's video on "Instinctive Shooting" helpful to get you started on the right track.

Enjoy, and keep your shooting Fun!  

[kenn1320]

Your already shooting better then me, dont rush it. Terry and Wapiti are spot on with their advice. Until you have shot at that distance, its tough for your brain to "guess" accurately the first few shots. I have read "become the arrow" and watched Byrons videos. He talks about visualising the arc of the arrow. When I shoot at 25yds, I raise my arm and it just feels right, then I draw the bow back focusing on the target the whole time. There is no doubt that if I could see better at that distance, I could shoot better. If you cant focus on the target, your not going to hit it.

Bowsan, bottle caps at 40yds, Im drooling.....

[jackdaw]

Make sure your form is rock solid at close range, or distance, (over 30 yards), shooting  will be trying at best. Then just listen to what the others have told you....don't expect to hit too many bottle caps at 40 yards though...that's quite a feat!! But it would make a great aimer if you can see it well....good luck

[BowsanAiros]

Another thing I might add. In order to shoot those longer distances, you may want to try the walk back and forth method..
Where shooting 1 arrow at 20 then another at 35 and back to 30 and so on ,for example..
Keep changing distances to train your brain to adjust your bow hand to the different distances..
Like others have said it takes time, but it can be done...
And remember "always focus on the smallest target you can see" when shooting instinctive..

I had a guy shooting here last year, every time he would back up, he would spray arrows all over my large target and punch holes in my garage.  I demanded he give me his watch and one of his new arrows.  I placed the arrow vertical to one side of center and hung his watch the other side of center, and said "wreck your own stuff, I dare you".  Amazing how easy it was for him to hit that watch at 30 yards.

[jhansen]

I mean no offense to Mike or anyone but I would like to make a point about shooting at longer range.  I only say this because Mike seems to be a newcomer to trad archery and I don't know his level of experience.  

Shooting at inanimate targets at long range is fun but a trad bow is a short range weapon when used for hunting.  I and everyone I know will not take a shot at a deer beyond 20 yards.  I personally prefer to be closer.  The chance of wounding the deer is just too high otherwise.  As Mike has already learned, a shot that hits the target at 30 yards may hit nothing but dirt at 40.  Hitting the dirt is far better than wounding a deer and having to try to track a poor to non-existant blood trail.  Just thought I'd point that out.  If you want to have a sobering experience take a laser range finder out to an unfamiliar area and try estimating distances to various objects before ranging them with the laser.  We humans are't real good at guessing distances.

John

[LinemanARK]

Yes Mr. Hansen I would never shoot at a animal at anything over 20yds and do my best to get the animal closer if possible. Thanks for the input. No offence taken.   Mike

[zetabow]

Somebody didn't agree or like my post as it's been removed, seems kinda impolite to do such a thing.

Suggesting to shoot Gap on some long shots to fast learn trajectory and then switch back to Instinct after the range has been programed in isn't offensive......or is it?

[AKmud]

Don't worry about the numbers (yardage), just get a "kicker" target like this -

     


Throw it around the yard and shoot it from different angles.  When shooting instinctive, the numbers don't matter.  You simply look at a target and "instinctively" aim.  Knowing the trajectory of your arrows is simply learned through practice and hundreds of arrows put through the bow.

[Margly]

Originally posted by AKmud:
Don't worry about the numbers (yardage), just get a "kicker" target like this -

       


Throw it around the yard and shoot it from different angles.  When shooting instinctive, the numbers don't matter.  You simply look at a target and "instinctively" aim.  Knowing the trajectory of your arrows is simply learned through practice and hundreds of arrows put through the bow.

Well said!
For my practice I try to do this.
And up to ca 25 yards I`m not so occupied with the distance. Inside that area I feel pretty comfortable with my arrows fps etc.
And to get your brain "tuned in" you need to shoot a lot of arrows.
My technique was that I got comfortable from every distances inside my "killzone" and then I started to increase my distance with ca 10 yards at a time.
Finally I was out around 50 yards and could still hit the targets inside a decent group.
BUT I will never try to shoot at an animal at that distances without trying to make a recovery shot. (To many errors just waiting to happen.)

I do practice at longer distances just to get comfortable with "recovery shots" and hopefully I never get to use one of them.

The challenge when shooting 3 fingers under and instinctively is that at a certain distance my heavy arrows (650 gn +) will be so heavy that I loose sight of the target because I have to lift my bow high and from there and out I`m lost   :D  

Good luck with your training    

Margly

[Stumpkiller]

I agree very much.  I had a Dan Quillion Patriot in 70# that was a sizzler . . . but something was missing.  I never got to see the arrow (and I was flat overbowed at 70#).  Not that I look - at least not consciously - but with the "slower" bows of 180 fps or so at least you get the flash of the fletches in transit as it occludes the spot in full focus/concentration.  Your brain files that arc away for future reference.

I use a bright nock and fletch.  Years ago I made up a batch of beautiful natural barred turkey with black nocks and they looked great.  But when released they disappeared.  I used 'em up and didn't do that again.

[hvyhitter]

Get a tennis ball and some judo points keep tossing the ball farther as you hit/come close to it more. Aim small > miss small!!!  You brain will eventually get hardwired .........unless you keep switching bows/arrows.

[Lone Ranger]

Originally posted by hvyhitter:
Get a tennis ball and some judo points keep tossing the ball farther as you hit/come close to it more. Aim small > miss small!!!  You brain will eventually get hardwired .........unless you keep switching bows/arrows.

be careful if you use light arrows at close range! ask me how I know!    :D  


L.R.    :cool:

[bobman]

I dont have the ability to pick a spot much over 25 yards. I tend to look at the entire target unless something small like the bottle caps mentioned are there to concentrate my vision.

I do enoy shooting at targets at 40 yards but wouldn't try it in the woods

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by jhansen:
 I and everyone I know will not take a shot at a deer beyond 20 yards.  

John [/QB]

Food for thought.......

Do you measure before you shoot?  

How do you know for sure they are 20 Yards and closer?

Why the exact 20 yards?

If you are worried about movement .....do you think hunting in TX should be outlawed?

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by rezeen6.5:
Yes Mr. Hansen I would never shoot at a animal at anything over 20yds    Mike

More food for thought....

Any animal?  

Why?

[jhansen]

Terry,
I'm not sure where you are going with "If you are worried about movement .....do you think hunting in TX should be outlawed?"  Really scratching my head on that one.  Was this an attack and if so, why?  I went on my first deer hunt when I was 8 years old.  I was carrying a .45 cal muzzleloader that my father built for me.  I got a deer.  In the years since I've only shot three deer with a centerfire rifle and two of those were with a Sharps single-shot.  Everything else was with a muzzleloader until I discovered bowhunting.  My score on deer with a bow stands at three.  None of them ran more than 75 yards.  I'm a little proud of that but the credit goes to the fact that I refuse to take "iffy" shots.  I've watched more than one nice rack of horns walk by unmolested because I wasn't sure of the shot.  Does that sound like someone who thinks hunting should be banned in Texas?

As for the rest;
I believe I was specific about stating "deer".  I should have said "deer-sized or larger" but here in central Texas there isn't much that is larger unless it's domestic livestock so that is what was in my mind.  Sure, I'll take a long shot at a rabbit or squirrel because any hit is likely to be disabling enough that I can finish the animal off quickly.

I normally hunt from a stand and yes I step off distances and put a rock or something that will be visible from the stand at circa the 20 yard mark.  Do I use a tape measure?  No, but I am close enough that if I pass on shots that aren't inside the markers I'm within my comfort zone.  I do the same thing when I go high-tech and hunt with my flintlock except that the max range nowadays becomes about 70 yards.  My eyes aren't good enough to see open sights and be sure of a clean kill at longer ranges anymore so I accept the limitations.

My intent was to help someone get started right. I didn't, and still don't, know his background but he was asking for advice.  Many newcomers to trad bows come from a compound bow and think 40+ yard shots should be normal.  I was pointing out that they aren't.  Hunting in general is under attack from those who don't understand game management and bowhunting is especially vulnerable.  After all, we shoot sharp sticks into Bambi.

If you would rather I keep my opinions to myself I will be glad to do so.  Back when I first fell into archery I learned a ton on this forum.  I'm trying to pay back the debt but I certainly don't want to offend anyone in my attempt to do so.

John