Trying to cure my target panic

[LongStick64]

Sometimes what is contributing to TP is simply bad form. You want to shoot from a position of strength. If at full draw you are feeling tension in your neck or shoulder, no good. Your mind will listen to your body and push you to execute the shot quicker to relieve itself from the tension. Try to adopt a better position, experiment without an arrow. Examine every part of your shot. You want to end up with a strong solid feel at anchor. For me I achieve it by tensing my back muscles prior to draw. These are the same muscles you want to be at tension, not the neck or shoulders. Modify your stance, when I had issues reaching my anchor I found my stance was too closed, opened it up and it's working for me. Next take a look on how you draw the string back, you may be tensing your bicep which will work against you. Also look to see if you are drawing the string straight back or does you drawing elbow move in a slight circular motion. I find moving in an arc really enables you to use your back to draw the string back and allows to to get in proper alignment at full draw with your drawing elbow ending up inline with your arrow as in Terry's Clock. Drawing straight back for me, by checking in a mirror, I can see my elbow not quite in alignment, another reason why I prefer to draw with my elbow travel in a slight arc.
So don't jump into the psychotherapy session until you try to make your form work with you.

[McDave]

Gary,

I believe he mentioned in the email he sent me that the sliding anchor drill was not in his book.

All of Dr. Kidwell's drills are based on the assumption that target panic is a learned response, as you know from reading the book, but I will lay a little background for others.  A learned response means that as you repeat a motion many times, your subconscious mind may begin to anticipate the response.  For example, even though your conscious mind does not want to release the arrow until you come to full draw, your subconscious mind might trigger the release early.  This is a difficult one to deal with directly.  We can't just tell the subconscious mind not to release the arrow early, because the subconscious mind doesn't work that way.  And yet we do want to turn the job of releasing the arrow over to the subconscious mind, because we introduce errors if we decide to consciously release the arrow.  In order to re-train the subconscious mind, we need to somehow disconnect the stimulus/response trigger that is causing it to release the arrow early.  This is the basis of all of Dr. Kidwell's drills.  (My apologies to Dr. Kidwell if I botched the psychological explanation).

The purpose of the sliding anchor drill is to break the connection to the subconscious mind that tells it that we are getting close to the end of the draw, so it is time to release the arrow.  The drill is to purposely draw past your anchor, maybe 1/2" one time, 1" another time, varying amounts, and then bring the arrow back to your anchor.  Some times you won't draw past your anchor at all, but you'll never stop the draw at the same place as long as you're practicing the drill.

I know, I know, this is bad form, but it isn't as bad a form as short-drawing the bow.  And it is possible to regain your back tension when you finally reach anchor before you shoot.  I suppose the main thing you lose is that you use up some energy with this back-and-forth movement.  Actually, I suspect some really good archers do this routinely.  Many people have noticed Rick Welch occasionally draw past his anchor and then relax into it.  Whether he does this on purpose or not, I don't know.

I needed a drill that I could use in tournaments, as that's the main time I have target panic.  I don't usually have it when I'm shooting in my backyard or on the range for fun.  Sometimes I get it when I'm shooting a very short-range target, like 15-20 feet away, even when I'm not in a tournament.  So this morning I tried it at my range on the close targets, and found that I could come to full draw with no problems.  Tomorrow, if it doesn't storm, I'll try it for the first time in a tournament.

Ironically, LongStick64's discussion of good form in his post above was indirectly the cause of some of my anxiety.  I always felt that I had to shoot each shot in a tournament using good form, and yet something was preventing me from doing that.  I think that if I know I'm going to purposely deviate from good form by drawing past my anchor, I will probably enjoy the tournament more and be able to reach my anchor more consistently.  Granted, my score might not be as high as it would if I were able to shoot with good form anyway, but I can't do that until I solve this problem first.

[LongStick64]

McDave
If I'm not mistaken Dr. Kidwell's book is mostly dedicated to developing a repeatable form, you need to establish your form in order to get any benefit of his drills. If your form isn't working to assist you in pulling off the shot, then you need to change it. If you are entering a competition and you are concerned about your form, chances are you will stress about it. Taking away from your performance.
Executing the shot should be a smooth transition from the pre draw to the follow through. If you start thinking about it while you are trying to shoot, I don't see how you can be relaxed.
It's been my observation that many archers having problems don't spend enough time analyzing their form and see if it needs correcting.
We have all tried and copied other "famous" archers, but in the end, use what really works for you not against you.

[McDave]

Executing the shot should be a smooth transition from the pre draw to the follow through

That's the way it was for me for many years, and mainly still is other than when I am shooting in competitions.  Over the past year, in competitions, I find that I'm having trouble coming to full draw, and am prematurely releasing the arrow.  If I could shoot the same way in competitions that I shoot casually, I wouldn't have a problem.  I used to be able to shoot with good form in competitions, and did quite well in them (for an old fart with no talent).  There is a difference between "target panic" and just shooting with poor form.

[LongStick64]

"There is a difference between "target panic" and just shooting with poor form."

True but without good form you cannot begin to solve your TP issues.

[Flingblade]

McDave,
Thanks for the explanation of the sliding anchor drill.  I will give it a try.  My problem has always been premature release.  I have made much progress with the drills from the book, but still have the problem when adrenaline is thrown in the mix while hunting.  I have also watched Rick Welch in slow motion draw past and slide forward into his anchor.  Then his string hand flips out to the right upon release.  Would seem to indicate form problems but we are all different and I don't think anyone can tell RIck he has poor form. I think the drill will work if I conciously regain back tension once I am anchored solid.

[LongStick64]

Slide drill can be a creep builder if your not careful. While I see that this can be a drill to help you consciously get past short drawing I don't see how you can maintain back tension on the shot and not collapse into it.

[Flingblade]

True but without good form you cannot begin to solve your TP issues.

LongStick,
This is the other way around.  Impossible to work on form when you can't even get to full draw.  In my case it was so bad at times I was releasing at half or 2/3 draw.  Very frustrating and I almost quit archery altogether.  I haven't tried this sliding anchor drill yet but can attest to how well the other drills work.  I am now working on a solid consistent anchor and back tension.  Was never able to work on that before solving the TP.  Sounds like you haven't been plagued with this type of TP and that is good. As with the other drills they are to be used when needed but not all the time.  If I find myself wanting to release early I go back to the drills to get back on track.  I am shooting more often now without needing to do the drills more than once or twice.

[LongStick64]

Fling,
Trust me I know where you are coming from. I've had TP. I know the symptoms. I also know that what worked for me is not a cure for everyone else. Not trying to stand on a pulpit here, just giving a different approach. There aren't any drills that work 100% for everyone, just like there isn't a style that everyone need to follow but we who have and had suffered through TP need alternate approaches. My point was simply that all of TP is not stuck in the subconscious that sometimes it could grow out of bad form. Take this last thing, most agree that TP is a result of a learned behaviour, such as releasing before getting at anchor. They get worse because every time they shoot they release early so in the long run they are enforcing the behaviour. Now if they get a really lightweight bow, light enough so the weight of the bow is not noticeable and plop down 3 feet away from the target and begin to work on form, hopefully they can relearn proper form and make that a learned behaviour.

[damascusdave]

Do not quote me on this because I do not have my copy of Billets to Bows handy, but I think it was target panic issues that caused Fred Bear to switch from shooting right handed.

Glenn St Charles said he helped many shooters to switch sides for a variety of reasons.

You should still be able to get a copy of Billets to Bows from Joe on ****.

DDave

[Flingblade]

Longstick,
I agree what works for one may not work for another.  I tried many different approaches to dealing with TP over the years.  Sometimes something would work for a few days or a week but then TP would be right back.  I'm just glad I've finally found an approach that is working for me and I can move on to working on other aspects of the shot.  I've been making steady improvement for almost a year now.  All traditional shooters are unique and I guess that is what makes shooting recurves and longbows so captivating.

[McDave]

I shot a tournament on Sunday, and tried the sliding anchor drill.

I used it off and on during the tournament.  I would prefer to just come to full draw, hold, and shoot the shot, since that is good form.  Some of the time I was able to do that.  On other shots I felt tension beginning to build up, so it was difficult to get to full draw on that shot.  When I felt like that, on the next couple of shots I would use the sliding anchor drill.  I found that if I moved the arrow back and forth a few times at full draw, pulling an inch or less past my anchor and then dropping down to somewhat lower than my anchor and then back past my anchor again, it relieved the tension, and then I was able to hold at my anchor and make the shot.  By dropping down lower than my anchor and then pulling into my anchor the final time before the shot, I was able to reestablish good back tension for the shot.

I don't particularly like doing this, because as Longstick says, it isn't a substitute for good form, but it did help me to relax during the tournament and I shot better than I would have if I didn't have this tool to use.  I think that one of the things that brought this form of target panic on was that I felt helpless as to how to deal with it during a tournament.  The only thing I knew to do was to just try harder each shot to come to full draw, which only made the situation worse.  Hopefully, now that I know a way to get beyond the problem, it will be a tool I will need to use less and less as time goes on.

[reddogge]

dd, I believe he shot left handed because he lost part of a finger on his right hand in a farm accident as a boy. At least that is what I read.

McDave,

That’s my current problem too.  I can’t hold at “maintainable state” without the anticipation/anxiety creeping in.  Curious… rather than use the sliding anchor, have you tried Dr. Kidwell’s figure 8 drill?  On the surface at least, it seems it may be a good compromise and allow you to keep tension throughout your sequence.

[Ed Q]

Great thread and discussions. I finished reading Dr. Kidwell's book and found it to be quite insightful, especially the chapter on target panic. Like was stated above, Dr. Kidwell explains it's a learned behavior or a learning process based on "classicalal conditioning," as first understood by Russian psychologist Ivan Pavlov. I'm no psychologist, and can't begin to describe or explain anywhere near as well as Dr. Kidwell can in how classical conditioning can lead to target panic in some people, but his explanation in his book made perfect sense as to its cause to lay person like me.

His book includes certain drills to help prevent and eventually cure target panic. I'm wondering if Olympic and competitive archers also include certain drills in their training and practice routines that help prevent or cure target practice. I can see how someone like me, a backyard shooter with no coach or instructor, can eventually develop target panic by never having incorporated proper training drills while flinging arrows at a target in my free time. So I was wondering what drills coaches have their competitive archers perform as a regular part of their training routine. Main reason I ask is so that I can try to incorporate them in my own practice sessions.

[Ed Q]

Here's an extra drill I found, which is a little similar to what Dr. Kidwell advises:

 http://www.archeryfix.com/aiming_drill.htm

[J-KID]

Originally posted by Ed Q:
Great thread and discussions. I finished reading Dr. Kidwell's book and found it to be quite insightful, especially the chapter on target panic. Like was stated above, Dr. Kidwell explains it's a learned behavior or a learning process based on "classicalal conditioning," as first understood by Russian psychologist Ivan Pavlov. I'm no psychologist, and can't begin to describe or explain anywhere near as well as Dr. Kidwell can in how classical conditioning can lead to target panic in some people, but his explanation in his book made perfect sense as to its cause to lay person like me.

His book includes certain drills to help prevent and eventually cure target panic. I'm wondering if Olympic and competitive archers also include certain drills in their training and practice routines that help prevent or cure target practice. I can see how someone like me, a backyard shooter with no coach or instructor, can eventually develop target panic by never having incorporated proper training drills while flinging arrows at a target in my free time. So I was wondering what drills coaches have their competitive archers perform as a regular part of their training routine. Main reason I ask is so that I can try to incorporate them in my own practice sessions.

Ed Q,
I have advised a number of national and Olympic level coaches on when and how to apply the target panic drills.  I know one specific Olympic coach that requires all his shooters to do the drills. He told me he firmly believes it keeps target panic from developing.  He also told me that he has had 100% success in treating target panic when applying the drills in the book.  Actually, the sliding anchor drill (not in the book) originated from discussions with a few of these coaches.

[ymountainman]

Hey guys i was a compound shooter for 30years. i kept tp. I finally had to trick my brain. I would tell myself when i draw that "im just aiming" "im not going to shoot" I could hold the pin on a  dime. It helps me on my recurve to "trick my brain" too. I don't think i will ever get rid of tp. It frustrates me to know how good i could be if i did'nt have it. thanks for the help!

[Lazy Ike]

Very interesting stuff. I discovered the sliding anchor through trial and error myself. I called it the yo-yo anchor.I never recommended it to anyone because for me, it helped but was not 100% reliable. The only thing that always allows me to hold and expand through the shot is a clicker. occasionally it seems as though the clicker will never break. In the past when this would happen, I'd just muscle through it even if it took 10 seconds. Now, if the shot mentally feels like it's gone into overtime, I let down, take a deep breath, and start over. I am going to try the sliding draw a bit more now. Now that I know that someone else has also used it to good effect.


Ike

[arrow flynn]

okay heres what idid went from swing draw to aset draw went from glove to tab and put aclicker on and got close to bale and did 20 with formaster befor every practice session tp gone