Very inconsistent...need some help please!

[NYArrow]

Folks,

 So I have only been shooting trad gear for a few months but reached a level pretty quickly I was very happy with. I'm a hunter so my goal was to shoot vital sized groups out to 25yds. This I had achieved for a bit. Along the way I have gotten hung up on arrow/spine selection, my anchor point and switching between three under/split finger. My current issue is my release(I think). I am now very happy with split finger shooting, anchoring with my index finger in the corner of my mouth and thumb knuckle behind my jaw. However some nights I shoot 3" groups at 25yds and some nights I shoot 12" groups. I can't put my finger on it. My arrow flight is very erratic in air. I can see my arrow flying knock severe left in air. (impacting target severe left as well) My set up is 55lb Montana Long bow, 28" 3555 GT's and 5555 Gt's with various point weights. (50gr brass inserts, 100gn brass inserts, 145gn field tips and 125gn field tips) Any help is much appreciated.

[Wapiti Bowman]

NYA,

Your experience, starting out with traditional gear is certainly not unique, and most of us have gone through it. But it's also extremely difficult to put a finger on a single cause, particularly without being able to see your shooting form.

Experimenting with different styles, and anchors is all part of the learning process, but you can't expect overnight success, nor can you expect consistent results during your experimentation period.

The best advice I can offer at this point, without being able to see your shooting form, is to find a good coach and take a few lessons. If that's not possible, get the "Masters of the Bare Bow III" DVD and study the lessons presented by "The Masters".

As for your arrow spine question, you need to take that over to the POW WOW forum, as this forum is for shooting questions. I will say that you probably need more weight forward than your using on your carbon arrows.

Good Luck, and Have Fun!  

[maineac]

If you are shooting 3" groups some nights and larger on different times your focus is probably lacking on the big group days.  I can notice variation depending on the day.  sometimes I only have the mental focus to shoot a couple arrows.  It is always tempting to keep shooting, trying to pull the groups back in, but it is pretty rare that I can get it back together.  Usually the groups dissolve.  I find it best to put up the bow and wait for the next day.

[McDave]

As Wapiti said, if a coach observed you shooting, he would probably steer you in the right direction faster, but if that's not an option, here are a few, but by no means all, of the things that have caused me to be erratic in the past:

As maineac said, your focus could be shifting away from your spot.  It is hard to believe, but sometimes we think we're focusing on the spot, but our focus has shifted to the arrow point or somewhere in space.  One way to check this is to make a conscious effort to focus on your spot on the next shot after an erratic shot (more of a conscious effort than usual).  If you hit your spot, then maybe you weren't really focusing on the spot when you shot the erratic shot.

Loss of back tension can cause erratic shots.  The evidence of loss of back tension is creeping, where the arrow moves forward at full draw before you release it.  The arrow should never move forward during the draw, and good evidence that you are maintaining back tension is if your string hand recoils backward and ends up on your neck or thereabouts.  If your string hand flies out to the side, you probably either lost back tension or plucked the string.

Cupping your string hand can result in erratic shots.  Your string hand should be flat and relaxed during the draw, and you should be able to feel it stretch out as you draw the bow.  The only tension should be in the tips of your fingers as you form a hook to hold the string.

[Richie]

p.m. sent

[NYArrow]

Thanks for all the input. I was told yesterday by a bowyer I need to fletch my arrows. He told me if I'm hitting within a 12" group at 20plus yds with an unfletched shafts that was pretty good. It makes sense to me considering my problems seem to  surface at 20plus yds. Within 15yds my groups are really good. So perhaps I'm asking too much of an unfletched arrow? Of course I know there are form issues I need to work on. I'm very persistent on my draw length/anchor. I do however cup my hand. So I will work on that. I also sometimes have an internal battle of what works best in terms of finger positions for release. (crease of first joint, between first and second joint etc.)

[fujimo]

WOW!!!
thats kinda important information that you left out!!
good shooting though
check out  O.L. Adcocks method of tuning arrows, and Rick Welches method of tuning the bow to match the arrows.- two different methods- but check them out.
if you are right handed, and plucking the string, you can send them out there nock left- but might be your shafts are too stiff- more weight up front.
check out rick for shooting techniques- it ensures good back tension- it really helped me.
g. luck
wayne

[reddogge]

I just ran your numbers on Stu's calculator and the GT3555 with 50gr insert and 145 gr point, 28" long and 3x5" feathers should fly well out of it.  Fletch the arrows and work on release.

[montucky]

I have had some of the same problems starting out...with fletched arrows that is.

I figured out that due to my bow type and brace hieght that my bow hand grip needed adjustment. Basically, i found that the string was slapping my arm enough that when the string hit, the bow would be slightly torqued (on its verticle axis counter clockwise - if you were looking straight down on me from above) and cause arrows to fly poorly and to the left.  After the shot the bow would be slightly turned in my hand.  So still keeping good in-line form...I centered the grip more in front of my thumb knuckle and this off-sets the bow string enough to avoid arm contact.

[Larry247]

It sounds to me like you may be looseing focus past 25yds and tensing up your back muscles some.

Hang in there closer for awhile.

[LongStick64]

Try the ten second drill. Go to your normal draw and anchor, focus on your spot and instead of releasing, hold on for ten solid seconds. I usually find that new shooters think they are under control when they are shooting as soon as they acquire the sight picture and not steadying their form. In order to be perfect you need to repeat the process as close to exact as possible. And you can only do that if you are in control.

[sawtoothscream]

When you shoot 3 under do you have a nock point under the nock also? I shot horrible groups before I added the second brass crimp under the nick. After that every got tight. Just a thought.  Also have you tuned the bow.

[Al Dente]

Where are you located in NYS?  If within the 5 boroughs (NYC) there is a great range in Ozone Park with extremely knowledgeable and FRIENDLY regulars.

[kenn1320]

My Montana (45#) has to be the easiest bow on arrow selection. I put a thin side plate on it, and it will shoot bare shaft 1535/3555/5575 shafts very well. The grip on those isnt the best, so pay attention to make sure your not torquing it as Montucky said. Also your string hand has to be relaxed as well. Set the string on the first crease, or between the first 2 creases, not on the tips/pads. This will allow you to relax your string hand. Also you are new, so just keep shooting and have fun. Things will come around before you know it.
Good luck, pm me if you have any questions.
Ken