Point-of-aim aiming system for hunting

[Doug Treat]

Hey guys,
  I have noticed that, with my setup (a longer, heavy arrow and lightweight bow),  I can use the same point-of-aim (about 20" low at the target) from 10 yds. to 25 yds. without changing it.  For hunting, this might be a good aiming system for me since, within my normal shooting distances between 10 and 25 yds., I don't have to judge distance, only hold the tip about 20" below where I want to hit  (about 10" below the belly line on an elk or at about 14" below the belly line of a deer).  My gap (distance at the arrow from point of arrow to the point of impact) changes from about 2 1/2" at 10 yds. to 1" at 25 yds., so shooting gap means that I have to judge yardages accurately.  This same POA impact is possible because, as I get farther from the target, the same 20" looks smaller and causes me to raise my arrow point so that the arrow has the same approximate point of impact.  I have found that, closer than 10 yds. requires me to have a smaller POA (I think that's because my arrow is still rising to my line of sight).  At 30 yds., my POA is about 12" and my point on distance is about 35 yds.
   If you want to try this, put a marker low on a target face (or some may need to put a marker somewhere in front of the target), shoot with the arrow point on the marker from 10 yds. and measure how far up your average point of impact is on 3 shots.  Then, move back to 15, 20, 25, 30, etc. using the same POA and see where your arrows hit.  My question is: Is the same POA within 10-25 yds. unique to my setup or is it possible with other faster, lighter arrows?  What have you guys found?  Thanks.

[Stumpkiller]

You must be shooting three-under.  I shoot split-finger and my point on is about 70 yards.  At 40 if I hold on a 3-D target's hoof I put it in the chest.

Use what works best for you.  I use instinctive for hunting and keep them to 25 yards and closer.

[Doug Treat]

Yes, I am shooting 3 under.

[Doug Treat]

Stump, if you get closer than 40 and aim at the hoof, will it still hit the same spot?  That's what I'm looking for.  Is it possible to get the same POA at different yardages with other setups or did I just stumble on this with my setup?

There will be a range where the poa will be close to the same, but that will vary in length and distance for every set up.  The arrow flies in a descending parabolic, that parabolic will show its self on the poa, but of course the vertical distance will seem less because you will be viewing that parabolic from the end and you are just working with a small percentage of it from 20 to 40 yards.  There is a range for all of my bows that on level ground that the arrow is even with the hoof.  However, getting all that mechanical on a game animal will get you into trouble unless the deer is acting as dead as the target you practiced the shot on.

[reddogge]

I'm afraid all of that calculating would fry my brain but did witness a couple of guys last week warming up for a 3-D shoot and they used a gap method and were commenting on their 10" gaps at 20 yards. They both shoot extreemly well on the practice butts but I didn't shoot with them so can't comment on the effectiveness of it.

[Stumpkiller]

Originally posted by Doug Treat:
Stump, if you get closer than 40 and aim at the hoof, will it still hit the same spot?  That's what I'm looking for.  Is it possible to get the same POA at different yardages with other setups or did I just stumble on this with my setup?

Aim point varies with distance (and elevation angles), differences in arrow length, different bows, etc.  Like any sight shooter you also have to be a good judge of distance.  It's a great technique for field archery or keeping up on the long 3-D targets, but IMHO falls on it's face for hunting.  But it was used (likely still is), and has one advantage in that if the first shot misses you know what to do to make the second shot connect.

[Doug Treat]

Yeah, I just started playing around with this and wondering what others have found.  If I could find a combination that gave me a 10" POA (like the example reddogge gave above) and stayed consistent from 10-25 yds. or so, that would be ideal as it would get the point of the arrow a bit closer to the point of impact.  It will require a bit more fiddlin'...maybe a bit longer arrow or something.  Yesterday, I shot POA at a local 3-D shoot and took second in the barebow class (very good for me).  The first place shooter was "FerretWYO" (Tradgang name) who was shooting very well yesterday in spite of the wind.

[Roger Savor sr]

I occasionally gap when I'm having issues. My gap at 20 yards is about 14". 25 yards, about 6" and my point on is about 32 yards. it doesn't however, seem logical that you could possibly have the same gap to 25 yards. And, yes, I'm a '3 under' shooter.

[Doug Treat]

Roger, I think that maybe because I shoot a very heavy, slow arrow, it works out that my Point of Aim is the same.  It seems that I have stumbled onto something just for my setup: 630-650 gr. arrows going about 145 fps. and it doesn't seem to work for faster, lighter arrows.

[Roger Savor sr]

Ar you anchoring with the middle finger or index finger to the corner of the mouth?

[Doug Treat]

I use my index finger in the corner of my mouth.  I've tried different anchors but nothing else feels right to me since I started shooting this way in 1983.

[zetabow]

Originally posted by reddogge:
I'm afraid all of that calculating would fry my brain

You calculate at a very complex level whatever aiming method used so you're fried already Reddogge.        

All the aiming methods work for target and Bowhunting, the effectiveness is really determined by the Archers skill level and nothing to do with the choice of aiming method.

I use a blend of Instinct, Split and Gap for 3D, I mostly shoot by feel\\experience and it's only the shots over 40 yards do I really calculate distance on any conscious level.