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Author Topic: Jay Kidwells Drills  (Read 874 times)

Offline Jeff Roark

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Jay Kidwells Drills
« on: May 29, 2011, 10:02:00 AM »
I have been trying to apply Dr. Kidwells drills into my shooting routine over the past week. I'm not 100% on how to actually structure a shooting routine around them yet, but I have ordered his book and hopefully have it here come Tuesday or Wednesday.

Anyway, I think what I have been doing is already helping me with my placement of shot commitment. I discovered that good or bad, as soon as I draw my bow I am committed to letting that arrow fly. I'm not sure where this stems from but I've a had a bit of the old TP over the past couple months and it really surfaced big time for me at the Tn. Classic. I think it would be described by Dr. Kidwell as Premature Anchor. The drills has allowed me to start gaining enough control to ask myself "is this the shot I really want to take?" while anchored and aiming. Before this, there was no question, I'd let her fly!

This morning I went out with the goal of doing 10 drills and then 3 shots if they were what I wanted. I ended up doing only 4 shots out of 30 drills and they were good shots. I was shooting at a piece of masking tape in the center of my target for windage work for the actual shots. It gave me enough control to be able to let down if things simply was not right. These drills are good stuff as I was doing the drills on everything in my front yard from flowers to birds.

This evening I am going to pull out my deer target and just do the same drill on it. I honestly think it wouldn't hurt me to just do the drills only over the next few weeks. This will allow one to build strength physically and mentally.

I'm excited about learning these new drills and would like to get to meet Dr. Kidwell someday since he lives here in Kentucky.

Just wanted to share that I am already seeing some positives just by winging it for the most part. Thanks Dr. Kidwell. Look forward to reading and applying whats in the book.

Offline J-KID

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 06:27:00 AM »
Jeff,
Exactly how you apply the drills really depends on the level of control you have when you begin.  It appears that you are applying them correctly.  You begin with more drills and fewer shots.  You probably have a combination of a premature anchor and release. As you find you are able to reach a solid anchor and hold till you are ready to release you begin to do fewer drills and shoot more.  Gradually you want to get to the point where you do a few drills every now and then to stay in control.  You will have some days where you seem to do more drills and other days when you can shoot without them.  I'd still do a few drills on the good days to keep the bad days to a minimum.

I'm wondering where you read about the drills.  I just posted a link on TG, however, you talk about shooting at a target with a masking tape line and I don't mention that on the link.  I do talk about that on Masters of the Barebow 4 and in my book.  If you did not see my target panic page and short video make sure you check it out.  Also, feel free to keep posting here with more questions.  By the way, I'm in the Florence area of Northern KY.
   Target Panic Link
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 07:53:00 AM »
Dr. Kidwell,

First and foremost, thanks for the reply. Let me explain that I suspected target panic slipping up on me for the last 3 or 4 months. At first it was as if I simply couldn't control what was going on. I could still reach anchor and sort of aim, and then the flyers would begin. At the time I wasn't sure that's what it was, but it surely surfaced when I got to the Tn. Classic. I simply could not reach a solid anchor and my shots were everywhere. This, along with having people that you have never met watching you shoot, made for an intense and embarrassing situation. I may have got a bit of performance anxiety along with the TP.

As for the TP, what baffled me was that I could draw-anchor-aim just fine on something I did not intend to shoot, but start to draw on something that I was planning (I suppose fully committed) to shoot and then I would lose all control of that simple sequence. After experiencing this I started reading these shooting forums and found this is quite common.

Now to the meat and taters! Since I am a relatively new shooter, just about a year and a half, its hard to determine what level of control I have. So, without knowing I have decided that I am going to begin as if I have none whatsoever. I'm going to mimic my training with Olympic Weightlifting that I learned from Dr. David Pursley in Lexington. I was an extremely strong individual when I went to him, but I started with a broom stick, and worked with it for several weeks before graduating to a bar. I had to learn to put the bar in the proper position every time, because if you can't put a broomstick in the right spot you sure as heck can't put a 140kg barbel in the right position. So, with all that I think for me starting at the bottom and working up from there will serve me much better. I don't want Target Panic or Performance Anxiety when shooting 3-d competitions or when getting ready to kill and animal.

I found the majority of the information about your drills right here and then you posted the links the other day. As for the shooting at the tape, I read that somewhere on the internet long ago. Can't remember, who or where. It may have been someone who read your book and was talking about it, just can't remember. Why I started doing it you may ask? Well, I tried changing my anchor(to possibly help with the premature anchor problem)a few weeks ago by anchoring with my thumb knuckle at my ear, instead of the normal finger to the corner of the mouth. Since that time I have been struggling with alignment issues. I couldn't stop shooting to the right. I guess my arrow was not in alignment with my eye and it was causing the problems. I figured it was another form or target panic issue and I remembered reading about shooting at a line of tape on a target face. After reading about your drills this week, I went back to my normal anchor and it helped tremendously. I'm still going to shoot at the tape though because I think it will simply help regardless of what level I am at. I had already devised a plan with the tape. I had it the full length of the target. I was going to trim a bit of it off weekly making a tad short as I went along and got better control. Eventually working down to basically a tiny square in the center. This may or may not be the best idea, but it was something I was thinking about trying.

So, with all my babbling here let me ask you a question? If you had someone you was starting from ground zero that had lost all control of their shot where, when and how much would you start them with? If this is answered in the book just say and I'll read it this coming week to save your time and effort.

Once again thanks. And if you are ever down around the London, Ky area, shoot me a PM and we may can get together. I'd sure like to talk some shooting with you.

Jeff

Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2011, 07:56:00 AM »
This is what I started trying right here, from Novel Stimuli.

"swinging out with the string hand as you draw and then back into anchor and even a deeper grip on the string can all bring temporary relief from your symptoms."

Worked for about a minute and then created alignment issues.

Also, I have not used the sliding anchor drill. I have only used the moving through the target drill. I'll add the sliding anchor drill in immediately as I think that may help me even more. I guess I jumped right over it and straight into other drill.

once again thanks.

Offline J-KID

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2011, 09:51:00 AM »
You really should add the Sliding Anchor into your practice.  It works on the premature release while the Move Through drill works on the triggering stimulus nature of the target.  It is really difficult to give you specifics on how many drills and how much shooting.  It just depends on the severity of your problem and your personality.  It appears that you are used to a well-disciplined regimen.  If that is true,  by all means do the drills and start from scratch.  I wouldn't have the patience to do it that way because I'm not well-disciplined when it comes to shooting.  The second most important thing is use your head and apply the drills in a manner that works best for you.  A little trial and error will probably be necessary.  The most important thing is have fun!
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2011, 01:30:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J-KID:
You really should add the Sliding Anchor into your practice.  It works on the premature release while the Move Through drill works on the triggering stimulus nature of the target.  It is really difficult to give you specifics on how many drills and how much shooting.  It just depends on the severity of your problem and your personality.  It appears that you are used to a well-disciplined regimen.  If that is true,  by all means do the drills and start from scratch.  I wouldn't have the patience to do it that way because I'm not well-disciplined when it comes to shooting.  The second most important thing is use your head and apply the drills in a manner that works best for you.  A little trial and error will probably be necessary.  The most important thing is have fun!
Thanks Dr. Kidwell. I'll work my way through it. It may not go exactly as planned, but as long as I am doing the drills I think it will all work out just fine. I agree with your last sentence and thats something I've let a little target panic take from me. No longer will that happen.

Jeff

Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2011, 05:47:00 PM »
Dr. Kidwell,

Just wanted to let you know I just finished your book and it was absolutely outstanding. I wish I would have read it before I had even started shooting. I am going to start on my second reading tomorrow.

Also, just wanted to let you know that the Sliding Anchor Drill has done wonders for me. I found as soon as I started doing the sliding anchor that when I would settle back into my anchor that I was much more accurate in comparison to when I would just come back to anchor, aim, and shoot. After noticing this I have been using a sort of modified Larry Yien extended hold shot along with the sliding anchor drill. I hold for a minimum a count of 3 and for  maximum a 10 count. I pick a different count each time to keep my mind from anticipating that shot because I started off just counting to 3 and I soon started the anticipation stuff. This morning I tried another technique with picking a number, shooting, and then picking that same count again but letting down instead.

I really appreciate all the instruction and advice you have given here, your site, and your book.

I'll keep you updated on my progress.

Offline J-KID

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2011, 06:24:00 PM »
Jeff,
Glad you found the book helpful.  Much of the effectiveness of all instruction depends on how well the shooter executes it given their specific needs. It appears that you are doing a great job of tailoring the drills, along with Larry's instruction, to your needs. Not everyone can do that.  Just remember that any progress you make is a result of your work as much as it is any drills.  I expect things will continue to improve for you.
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2011, 10:12:00 PM »
Dr. Kidwell,

Question. This evening during my practice I decided to do the move through and move to drills with an occasional shot at the end. I don't know how to explain this exactly, but it was as if I couldn't aim at the end of the drill. I could let down and then draw, anchor, aim, and release just fine. I focus on the spot when I aim but I did notice that when I do the moving drills my focal point changes to the tip of the arrow. Do you think this will cause me problems in the long run?

I know you focus on the spot you want to hit but when you do the move through/to drills what is your vision focused on?

I hope you can understand what I ma trying to say and ask!

Offline J-KID

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2011, 10:55:00 PM »
I've seen that before with gap shooters.  I shoot instinctive (right handed, left eye dominant) so if I look at a reference point it really messes me up. It won't cause you any problems actually shooting.  It might be that the premature hold is keying in on the drills?  Don't know for sure.  Focus on a spot doing the drills the same way you do when actually shooting.
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 08:19:00 AM »
Dr. Kidwell,

Did the move through/to drills this morning and kept my eye on the spot while moving and when I came back on target I settled in just fine. I think I was a little quick to shoot, but I could aim. I think I'll combine the sliding anchor with that move through/to drill to make sure I am aligned and soild at my anchor. Otherwise, just needed to keep my eye on the button!

I am working on that Button Technique. Seems a bit difficult for me to imagine my button on the spot with all the other spots choosing me!

Offline J-KID

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 08:26:00 AM »
That's correct - on the button!  The button technique requires some diligence but it is well worth it down the road.
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

Offline Jeff Roark

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2011, 07:50:00 PM »
Yeah its not easy for sure but I have been working on it. I didn't realize how difficult it would really be.

Offline Capt

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2011, 08:28:00 PM »
Dr Kidwell,
Thanks for the video of the drills.  It really has helped me.  I am a thumb ring shooter and do not see the arrow as it is on the other side of the rise but for whatever reason started to develop a "freeze" similar to what I had experienced in the past with finger shooting.  I started these drills again last week and the problem seems to be going away.  
I can't recommend these drills enough.

Offline J-KID

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Re: Jay Kidwells Drills
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2011, 09:03:00 PM »
Glad the drills are helping you Capt.
Jay Kidwell
BW PLV TD
64" / 50 & 55#

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