Rod Jenkins class

[McDave]

I recently attended Rod Jenkins's class in American Falls, ID, that was organized by BigCnyn (thanks Brian!).

I attended Rod's class in Hood River, Oregon several years ago, so this is the second time I've attended his class.  Actually, Brian also attended the same class I did in Hood River, but I didn't make the connection until we met again in American Falls last week.

Rod has managed to distill the essence of the fundamentals of archery so that he can focus on the very most important aspects that apply to everybody, regardless of personal style, during his class.  You won't fire very many shots during his class, and those you do will be at a blank bale a few feet away, but he will isolate the things you need to do to progress during those few shots, and put you on the right course to get to the next level.  Rod's method of practice and perfecting your skills involves shooting a great many shots, as he explains in the video Masters of the Bare Bow 3, but those drills work better when you know what you need to work on.

In MBB 3, Rod introduces the bridge method.  He explains that you need to condition your mind to accept nothing less than a perfect shot.  When you do shoot a less than perfect shot, you need to go back and repeat certain drills that will reinforce whatever skill it was that didn't work during that shot.

The problem many of us have is that we really don't know whether or not we have shot a perfect shot.  We might just be repeating errors that we have repeated enough times that they have become comfortable to us, especially when we're standing in front of a blank bale.  Even when we have the evidence of shooting at a target and hitting exactly what we're shooting at, did we shoot a perfect shot or was it just a lucky shot where our mistakes just happened to cancel each other out?  When we miss, we really don't know why, or maybe we have progressed to the point that we do know why, but only after the fact, and not in time to stop a bad shot before it happens.  We mentally understand the concepts of good archery form when we read about them or see them in a video, but don't have sufficient awareness of our own bodies to know whether we are correctly applying those concepts when we shoot the bow.

This is the benefit of a class, where someone like Rod can immediately identify what it is you need to do to shoot better.  In some ways, he reminds me of Yoda from Star Wars teaching Luke Skywalker to feel the force.  He knows when it is important to pause and let a particularly important concept sink in that will probably not be well understood just by saying the words.

During the last few shots at the end of the class, I really felt that I had an understanding of what it feels like to shoot a perfect shot (or at least as perfect a shot as I'm capable of shooting now).  I felt the same way at the end of the first class; however, errors do creep in over time that need to be identified and corrected.  If I make an error and repeat it enough times, the error begins to feel normal and right, and then it is hard to self-correct, which is why I needed to attend his class again.  God willing and if Rod and I are still doing this in a few more years, I may need to repeat it a third time.

[NBK]

Thanks for the report.  Rod gave a seminar at our Wis. Trad banquet two years ago and he obviously knows his stuff.  How much individual interaction did you have?  How many people in the class, etc.

[McDave]

I believe Rod limits his classes to 12, and there were a few less than that in the class at American Falls.  I believe each participant got as much of Rod's personal attention as he or she wanted, for as long a period of time as they wanted Rod to spend with them.

Rod's goal at the individual level was to have each participant shoot a "perfect" shot, and then repeat it, so we would be aware of when we did and didn't shoot a perfect shot in the future.

While all the basics, stance, grip, allignment, etc., were covered, Rod's main focus is back tension, not necessarily because it is the most important factor in shooting a bow, but because it is probably the least well understood.  People think they're using back tension when they're not, and people who have already learned to use back tension, like me, are only using a part of what's available to them.  So a lot of Rod's personal attention was devoted to awakening each person's awareness of back tension.  It's subtle enough that even though you watch him work with 5 people on back tension before it's your turn, you may not grasp it until he does the same thing with you.  It's not something that you can learn once and then forget about; you have to continue to work on it.  Rod plans to use the formaster himself as a part of his training for the IBO World's.

Some people required extra attention to get their release to go off.  As in my previous class, most of us didn't have any particular problem with the subconscious release, but a few people just stand there pulling at full draw waiting for something that doesn't happen.  This doesn't seem to be an easy problem for those people to solve, although everybody eventually shot their arrows, subconscious release or otherwise.

[Greg Skinner]

McDave, that was an excellent job of analyzing the shot process and how we handle it on an individual basis.  My wife accuses me of overanalyzing everything, but I doubt I could do a better job than you have.  

I would have liked to attend that class, but it is a long 6 plus hour drive from where I live and didn't come at a good time for my schedule.

Anyway, thanks for your insights regarding the class and the shooting process.  When all is said and done I guess becoming a good shot is more of a journey than a destination. I'm not so sure I'll ever arrive where I want to be in that regard.

[snag]

Dave, glad to see you still got some things out of his class. I think it would be helpful to attend one a year if that was possible. Everyone needs a shooting coach!
I still incorporate the blind bale shooting while practicing. Trying to attain full commitment to each shot is so valuable to me as a bowhunter and for target archery. It is amazing how easily I can get into just committing to shooting!..Not committing to the shot all the way to conclusion. I tell myself to enjoy the whole process not the final results. Because if you don't commit to the shot the final results are not so good! haha

[Ben Maher]

I have taken Rods class twice ... and need to take it a 3rd time ! lol

I don't think you can ever get enough good coaching and so much of what we often percieve as good coaching is really a further breakdown of the basics.
I think this is where Rod excels , taking what each individual does and ensuring that they have a working practical knowledge of how to apply the basic fundamentals of good archery form to their personal shot sequence .

He touches on such in MBB4 ... Making sure each part of the sequence is perfect ... not the whole but the parts
...the rest will take care of itself .

[NJWoodsman]

Knowing when you shot a "less than", and what you did wrong, is the big challenge of this practice method. Videoing yourself is a big help, at least if you are making a consistent mistake. The frustrating thing about developing form is, it's like the Bozo the Clown plate juggling gag- every time you get one plate spinning good, another starts wobbling. And if you slack off, pretty soon they all start dropping...

[McDave]

I think you're right, Bill.  I've experienced a lot of what you're talking about.

In MBB IV, they point out that our conscious mind can only focus on one thing at a time.  The common wisdom is that the one conscious thing our mind should be focused on is the target.  However, they point out in MBB IV that the target is really not the most productive thing our conscious mind should be focused on.  They demonstrated how our subconscious mind has a better ability than our conscious mind to remain on target.  So we should identify the target for our subconscious mind, and of course look at it throughout the shot, but turn the job of aiming over to the subconscious mind.  Their suggestion was to keep our conscious mind focused on "pulling" instead.

If that is true, why have we been told all these years to focus all of our attention on the target?  My theory is that if we focus all of our attention on the target, our conscious mind is at least occupied with something that is relatively harmless.  It is not going to screw up the shot by focusing a little on this and a little on that, but not enough on anything to do any good.  I think this is the cause of all the "wobbling plates:" our conscious mind grabbing a job away from the subconscious mind, but then throwing it back before it gets done so it can try to focus on something else.

I think we eliminate a lot of the wobbling plates if we recognize that our conscious mind can really only focus on one thing.  Maybe the most important thing is "pulling" or maybe the most important thing is the spot, but either of those would be better than fragmenting our attention among a lot of things that are better handled by the subconscious mind.

[Greg Skinner]

I myself have often wondered about the "focus and concentrate on the target" mentality.  I always found that if my form was lacking, no amount of concentrating on the spot would consistently put the arrow there.  Hence the theory that if we perfect our shot using the blank bale then we can in fact focus on the target and relegate the form to the subconsious.

My problem with that is that without feedback from the target I can't reinforce that I made a good shot.  As Bill suggests, videoing helps, but sometimes the form flaws are small enough to be difficult to spot and I might spend an entire practice session blank baling and still be ingraining incorrect habits.

I have shot for enough years and made enough good shots with correct form to know what it feels like when it all comes together.  In fact, as many others have stated in the past, when it is all flowing smoothly I'm not really focusing on anything - I don't need to.  It is only when there is a breakdown in form and/or results that I begin analyzing and second-guessing what I am doing wrong.

I guess what I focus on most at any given time is what seems to make the most difference in my shot at that time.  More often than not it is the push-pull effort than prevents me from collapsing.  Obviously I can't focus on the target as much as I should by doing so and my subsequent group may not be as tight as when I can focus all my attention on the target.  However, focusing on the form helps the overall consistency of the shot and helps eliminate the seemingly unexplained flyers.

[McDave]

I guess what I focus on most at any given time is what seems to make the most difference in my shot at that time. More often than not it is the push-pull effort than prevents me from collapsing. Obviously I can't focus on the target as much as I should by doing so and my subsequent group may not be as tight as when I can focus all my attention on the target.  

What was somewhat liberating for me from MBB 4 was the concept that you really don't need to focus much on the target in order for your subconscious to keep centering the arrow every time it drifts off center.  I think when you say you focus "most" on push-pull and "not as much as you should" on the target, what that means is that you are dividing your focus too much between the two, or maybe even shifting your focus back and forth between the two.  What MBB 4 suggests is that you maintain your primary focus on your push-pull throughout the entire shot process.  Clearly, you have to look at the target enough to set up your gap or sight picture in order to hit the target, which I guess requires some of your attention, more than if you were just shooting at a blank bale.  But they are suggesting that you minimize your focus on the target, certainly a lot less than you would be focusing if you were worrying that you weren't focusing on it as much as you should.  Try it; at worst, you'll be shooting a few arrows in a new way you haven't tried before.

I kind of like it.  My shooting as a whole has improved in the short time I've been using it.  Most of the improvement has been due to cleaner releases due to focusing on pulling throughout the shot.  At least there has been enough of an improvement there to offset any decrease in accuracy by not focusing all my attention on the spot.  Maybe if I had perfect form, it would be better for me to go back to focusing on the spot.  But since most of my errors are form errors and not aiming errors, I think I'm better off focusing on pulling at this stage of the game.

I don't see how you could avoid having the problem you describe with the blank bale.  How do you know you aren't just reinforcing bad habits?  Rod noticed that since my last class several years ago, I wasn't bringing my forearm completely around in line with the arrow, and that I let the arrow very slightly creep forward at full draw, so slightly that others in the class couldn't see it until he slowed down the video.  I am very aware of these things now, and can benefit more from the blank bale than I did before they were pointed out to me.  But I don't know if I would have ever noticed these two things on my own.  I probably would have noticed that I wasn't bringing my forearm around far enough on a video, but I wouldn't have known what to do about it, since it felt like I was bringing my forearm around as far as it could go.  Rod raised my elbow an inch or so, and lo and behold in that position it would go around further than it would when it was in line with the arrow.

[moebow]

YES,YES,YES!!!!  McDave has it!!!!  Current thinking is that the aiming process should be subconscious and your form steps should be the focus of your mental concentration.

Try this experiment.  Look at an object at a little distance.  A light switch across the room, or a leaf in a tree out the window.  Now, point at that object with your bow hand finger, and keep looking at it.  Now while still pointing and looking at the object, think about ( and do) reaching up and rubbing your ear lobe with the other hand.  As you mentally concentrate on rubbing your ear lobe notice how steady your bow hand point is staying on the object.

It is counter intuitive and goes against many of the things we've been taught ie. "burn a hole", "pick a hair", etc.  But try it.  It works!

Do the experiment again and this time pat your self on the top of the head, pick your nose or whatever else you can think of.  You will have to mentally concentrate on the action you are doing but if you let your subconscious maintain the point of the hand and just keep looking at the object, you will be amazed how steady your "point" stays on target.

Run your form steps consciously and let your sub conscious do the aiming.

[BobCo 1965]

I also agree, archery is now leaning toward being looked as more of a technical sport then an aiming sport.

[NJWoodsman]

Let's not confuse how to practice on the BLANK bale vs. "the bridge" or shooting a target. The point with the blank bale is to eliminate the target as a conscious distraction. In other words, the conscious is to concentrate on the particular form element being worked on (such as pulling thru, or as Len Cardinale calls it, "no softening").

But when you actually are shooting a target, the opposite is true- form is subconscious, and the conscious mind is "immersed in aiming". This immersion occurs AFTER the shot is assembled.

Certainly it's possible to aim subconsciously (not talking about method, just where the focus is), but I don't believe accuracy can be as good. To prove this, just put a sight on your bow or use a compound, and you'll see how far off, and how much the pin wanders, until you aim.

[SHOOTO8S]

I've avoided the subject of subconscious aiming, as I personally feel subconscious aiming is more of a solid method when using sights....and took time to try to learn to shoot using subconscious aiming as to have a idea about the effectiveness of the method...admittingly after being coached to allow the subconscious to run the shot, and the conscious to aim and only aim for the last 39 years, I may have not been the best test subject and was unable to be as effective. That being said, theres no denying the Koreans success with subconscious aiming, along with the USA, now that they have had some time to convert, have been putting up their best numbers in several years.

[moebow]

Rod,  Thanks for chiming in.  I still love your example of what happens when you feel the need to "check on the guy in the back."  A trained subconscious is a marvelous thing and can do just about anything it has been trained to do.  I just mentioned this as another approach to an end result and to perhaps give more options to folks to try.

To be sure, subconscious aiming is very effective with sights (proven as you say by results).  I still feel that I shoot as you do but have been playing with this idea with fairly good results barebow.

It's great that you have the time and inclination to keep tract of our conversations here.  Thank you!

[McDave]

Maybe my reasoning is simple minded, but it goes something like this:

The Koreans and US team members Rod is talking about have been working on their form for years and years, and probably have about as close to perfect form as it is possible to have on this planet.  They have no doubt also been working on their aiming, but (and this is where I'm taking a leap of faith) there probably is a lot more difference between a champion's form and an average archer's form than there is between a champion's aiming and an average archer's aiming.

Therefore, if a champion archer improves by switching from focusing on aiming to focusing on form, then it would make even more sense for an average archer to switch, since an average archer has so much more to gain by improvements in form than a champion archer does.

At least, speaking as an average archer, that seems to be the case for me.

[moebow]

Here is a thought and I wonder if Dr Kidwell is watching any of this.  He says in his book and on MBB 4 that the subconscious is the big cause of TP.  Essentially that the subconscious is what wants to skip steps to get to the end result resulting in early release or freezing. It can run the shot but is  looking for ways to make it go faster when there are multiple steps to do.

If we give the subconscious only one step to do -- aiming -- and run our shot steps consciously wouldn't we essentially have no TP?  The subconscious wouldn't be inclined to skip the one and only step it has -- would it?

[Osage61]

I love reading this stuff. Got nothin' to add, but I do love this stuff...Thanks boys!!  

[BobCo 1965]

Great post Rod! Thanks.

"The Koreans and US team members Rod is talking about have been working on their form for years and years, and probably have about as close to perfect form as it is possible to have on this planet. They have no doubt also been working on their aiming, but (and this is where I'm taking a leap of faith) there probably is a lot more difference between a champion's form and an average archer's form than there is between a champion's aiming and an average archer's aiming."

To be honest, I do not believe that is entirely true. If you talk to an elite archer and ask how they aim, you probably will not get an answer. Or they'll tell you that it just happens. You'll probably also get the answer that aiming is the easy part. They address and look at the target and the aperture just falls into place from precise form. There is basically no focus at all on aiming or lining up the aperture and target by muscle movement. Focus is usually on back and expansion (especially in tournaments).

“If we give the subconscious only one step to do -- aiming -- and run our shot steps consciously wouldn't we essentially have any TP The subconscious wouldn't be inclined to skip the one and only step it has -- would it?”

I had a student one time that suffered from TP. Essentially what you mentioned is how we cured him (I also ran some of Jays drills). I shot in unison with him and we actually said each step of the shot sequence as we preformed it. We did this up close, blind, and shooting at targets. We then went to flash cards, and finally to saying the steps in his head.

FWIW: Enclosed is a clip of my son doing a TV interview. Josh (and I) shoot target recurve archery during the winter and summer and move to our barebows in the fall for hunting. Josh has a very active USA Regional Archery Coach. In the interview he touches on the subject at hand:

  http://www.wgrz.com/news/daybreak/GreatKid/article/127293/290/Great-Kid-Challenge-Archery

[Greg Skinner]

Good stuff, guys.  Moebow, what I am getting out of your sub-conscious aiming comment is that we really don't have to "burn a hole" in order for our sub-conscious to know what we want to aim at - it just knows, just as it knows if there is a tree limb somewhere close to the path to the target, it "wants to" send the arrow there because we are focusing on not hitting the limb.

 Therefore, if we focus on correct form in whatever aspect that entails, the aiming takes care of itself - at least that is how it has always worked for me.  I have never had a problem with aiming or knowing how to aim.  My problem has always been rooted around inconsistent form.