Draw length shortens with a recurve. Why?

Okay… I’ve read many “advice” posts on various forums telling folks their draw length will shorten from a compound to a recurve.  Most recently there was a post claiming the same thing and I asked, why.  The only response purported that muscular and skeletal compression is the reason.  I don’t think so.  

I’m of the notion that your actual draw length is…. well… your actual draw length. I doubt physiology has any impact on draw length even if we’re talking about a 100 pound bow.  I’ve seen guys draw their compound and anchor behind the jaw with both an index finger and handheld thumb release.  Many of them also use a string loop.  Taking into account the barrel of the release and the loop, it seems to me that if an archer was in proper (bone to bone) alignment, his draw length with a recurve may increase substantially, or at the very least stay the same, because your actual draw length is your … well… actual draw length.  (Hey!  Did I already say that?)   Unless, of course, he short draws, leans forward, moves his face to the string, collapses from being over bowed, etc., etc.  No sir… at this point I “think” the ole “having a shorter draw length” with a recurve is one of those old tales that takes traction and people accept as truth.  

I would enjoy reading thoughts that would attempt to convince me I’m wrong.  :^)

[dragonheart]

When you get "into the shot" you will tend to shorten your draw.  Nate Steen was telling me about this test for your draw length.  Take an arrow and mark it with different color marks at increments of about 1/2 inch.  Then just go shoot, like you would in the field stump shooting.  Have someone watch the arrow length, but just shoot relaxed and comfortable like you would normally shoot.  

I have noticed that I am actually shooting shorter draw.  When we get "into the shot" and have an intensity of focus (concentration), we think less about the static position and it is more of a flow.  Is that poor form?  No it is your natural form.  The form you will shoot under pressure in the field.  If you just draw an arrow back to a mark and hold to measure your draw length, that is a different dynamic then actually shooting the bow.  Your muscles are not under the same tension and you are thinking about where to draw and HOLD.  You will subconsiously draw further or "to the mark".  You are trying to hold instead of flow the tension into the back muscles then loose the string.  As the weight increases on your draw fingers you simply refuse to hold the string any longer.  

The issue with a mechanical arrow flinger is that the let off changes the dynamic tension and sets up a physical an psychological situation to draw and hold.  You tend to be more extended draw length instead of a dynamic tension.  The forces is differnt in shooting a let off bow vs. a stickbow.  I believe that is where the shortened draw with longbows and recurves came from.  That is what happens when you do not hold, you flow through the shot as the poundage increased.

[Don Stokes]

There's a lot of difference in holding 70# and holding 20#. Everyone I know who went from compounds to traditional had a shorter draw length with the traditional bow, or at least no longer. I think the holding weight of our bows does compress our bodies enough to account for the difference. I had a 30" draw length in my compound days, but I draw 27-28" with traditional bows. If our bodies were made of steel, perhaps it wouldn't be the case, but we're made of much softer stuff.

[McDave]

I haven't shot a compound in a while, but don't compound shooters typically anchor under their chins?  Maybe anchoring under your chin gives you a longer draw length than anchoring on your face?

[dragonheart]

I think anchor could have some effect, but I really think that the differnce is the Hold at full draw.  We a just more compressed when shooting a fluid style, then when shooting a locked static style.  Some archers, and they shoot well, overdraw and then settle and release.  I have read that Paul Schaffer shot that way and his arrows had to be cut longer to accomidate the longer draw then settling.  When you watch Rick Welch shoot he does the same.  Their draw when the arrow is fired is their draw length.  If you lock out and hold it is longer.  Under your chin is about even with corner of mouth, really dont this is that much of a differnce.  Draw length should be what is casual and comfortable without excessive tension on the archer.  I believe that "making something happen" is less effective than shootign the relaxed natural form you have.  This of course considereing that you have the basic form down. Target archers used to be trained in a "locked out" bow arm.  Today you see more bend in the bow arm, but not excessive.  The bow shoulder is the key.  Low and back, bow arm shoulder.  If you watch Hill shoot some may say his bowarm is excessive bent, but the best archers I have seen have all shot with bend in bow arm, that includes the mechanical modern archers.  this will effect draw length, but the advantage of a bent arm outweighs any performance loss.  In my opionion is it simply inheirantly more accurate part of the form.

[Stumpkiller]

Others said it exactly: it's because suddenly you're doing 3 times more work (or more) to hold at your draw length.  Your body schrunches up.

[Dan Adair]

Traditional archers do it right...  And that should be your draw length.  I know a whole lot more guys that draw between 26-27inches than I do guys that draw 28" plus.  But its normal for guys ego's to get in the way of scientific facts  :D

Compounders usually have a "sinking anchor" and stand very tall and erect, and many lean their body back with their drawing elbow that high in the air.  Most compounders I know and shoot with are on the verge of feeling like their "winging it" upon release.  But, the more they pull that bow, the faster it goes, and therefore the more they can brag.

Barebow shooters keep everything in a line and pull into an anchor (like the classic middle finger inthe corner of the mouth)  We can't get away with big form errors shooting fingers...  We have voodoo on our side  :D

[Javi]

Mostly it has to do with string angle and anchor point... when was the last time you saw a compound shooter anchor with their index or middle finger on their eyetooth...    :D  

Pull even a 58" longbow back as far as a compound shooter does a 30" A2A bow and the string would be behind your ear...

As for trad shooters with modern equipment  getting all scrunched up to shoot.. I don't understand why they do it... unless it's to copy the old timers.. who had to do it because of equipment limitations.

[dragonheart]

The "scrunched up" is natural.  It happens when you are rythmic with your shooting.  It is not a position that your are trying to do.  One of the things that has come very much into my shooting awareness is working towards a relaxed method of shooting.  Shooting a low bow weight and "getting extended" gets very rigid, static, and less conducive to hunting shots.  Staying with a more relaxed flow of the shot keeps a more natural dymanic.  My draw is shorter.  It is what it is.

[Javi]

I saw a 6' 2" guy scrunched up to about 5 foot nothing shooting a longbow the other day.. I just figured he was practicing for a hunting shot... turns out that's how he was taught to shoot a few years ago.. so that's how he shoots.. Guy could scratch his knees without bending over but I bet he wasn't drawing 27"...

I'll stand up tall the way I was taught 50 plus years ago, all that bending over when you ain't got to would get old after a while...

[Jake Diebolt]

@Javi

The last time I saw a compound shooter anchor at his eye tooth was my dad, who still shoots a compound like he did a recurve before going to the compound. That being said, when he drew back my bow and shot, he was about an inch shorter than he normally would be, even though he normally holds 40lbs at full draw on his compound (70Lbs with 35% let off).

I've noticed that as my form has improved, my draw length has naturally increased by an inch or so, just from reaching better alignment. before, I was scrunched all to heck.

PS: I may have managed to partially convert the man...he keeps asking me for a reviews about trad bows he sees online...