TOO MANY ABSOLUTES - BEWARE

[Terry Green]

I am beginning to see a pattern continue that is not good for folks trying to learn how to shoot.  Everyone is built different, and are mentally different.  To make absolute statements and include everyone to one mandate is not doing the students wanting to learn any good.

I'm not going to get into all the absolutes I've been seeing here on this thread....but be aware, from here on out, if I see someone proclaiming an absolute/only one way/must do this way.....I'm going to call BS.

Not trying to be an A$$ here, but trying to help folks find their way.  My way is NOT the best for everyone....and neither is anyone elses.  I'm on one end of the spectrum, and my friend Jason Wesbrock is on the other.  It would be a train wreck if he was FORCED to start shooting like me, and I like him.  We both have our own way an style that work for our make up.  One common thread between us?....proper alignment and accuracy....all the rest is as different as night and day....and that's OK!!!


We all need to find what works best for our individual make up, and we need to put the pieces of the puzzle together for ourselves and not have other's forcing a piece that wont fit.

Again, I'm glad we have so many hear wanting to help....but lets remember...there's more than one way to skin a cat....and we really don't know the entire make up of those wanting to learn to skin the cat....he might be the one figuring the trajectory to the moon, or the one flying the rocket....lets don't let them switch jobs at blast off.

       

[Green]

Great points Terry and this should be stickied to the top as a disclaimer of sorts probably.  

I advocated in a thread yesterday for folks to seek a qualified coach/instructor to learn "one on one" from.  There's no substitute for having a qualified coach fit the proper basics to your physique.  Your threads/pics on proper alignment are great.....how one gets there, and where/what a shooter uses for anchor/draw check points is purely individual.

[vermonster13]

I agree 100%. There are just too many variables for any one way of anything to work for everyone. Find what works for you and practice it.

[Terry Green]

Thanks Green...I cannot tell you how many folks have emailed me over the years....NOT just to thank me for my input, but for THIS forum and all the input from others as well.

Some folks will never be able to have a coach, and some say you shouldn't try an lean from the internet.  Getting a coach is always great to get you started, but for those that can't for what ever reason, please do not discount the power of the internet.  Again, I cannot tell you how many folks over the years have learned to shoot, learned to shoot better, and found the missing link right here on this forum.

And I do believe this is the most civil shooters forum on the net with hardly any total bias, self proclaimed professionals, an my way is the highway types, and folks arguing over 'the best way'.  Folks contributing here do generally have the best interest in helping folks, and I'm very thankful for that.

We have worked hard to keep it that way, and set a precedence very early on that that type of stuff would not be tolerated here.

And, I'm not singling anyone out, there's a lot of folks here with a wealth of knowledge, just trying to keep the forum on course, and keep it beneficial for folks on both sides of the spectrum and those in between.

   

[RedShaft]

what shooters have to remember is the basics of form, string grips, bow grips, you stance, and solid anchor. there can be countless anchor points too. you need to get the basics and get in your yard or range or basement and shoot shoot shoot. try different methods till you find what feels best and is most accurate with you and your body type. and practice till you become one with your equipment. i think to many guys are looking for a golden answer to get them busting nocks off at twenty yards. find your style and practice like you need to and it will happen.    

[Green]

I agree Terry....before I found a local coach in Mike "Javi" Cooper, I learned so much from this forum, and was very fortunate to get some very, very good coaching from 1100 miles away via Moebow's open offer for help and extensive communication and encouragement.  There are other qualified members who can/will do the same thing for other members as well.  

There is so much good information in this forum, as well as throughout TradGang for members to take advantage of. I can 100% guarantee that the information available in this forum has provided me with the resources to seek out and become a far better and more knowledgeable shooter.  The helpful attitude of the qualified coaches/instructors who frequent this forum is far more valuable than words can relate.

[Mo0se]

So I need to show my credentials to comment? I'm not trying to stir anything up...but if someone asks a valid question not directed to any one person in general, I will try to help them. There are certainly more than two qualified individuals here.

[Mike Bolin]

MoOse, that is the point of T's post. There are a lot of shooters here with tons of knowledge to share. BUT-other that concentration and proper alignment there are  many variables. Just because I don't shoot 3 under doesn't mean I can't shoot. Likewise if I tell folks that shooting split finger is the only way, I would be wrong. I guess some posters may have been taking the "my way is the only way and if it isn't like mine it's wrong" standpoint and in turn confusing/frustrating new shooters. Mike

[Mo0se]

I agree there is no one way.. to do anything.  

[Terry Green]

No moose, this has nothing to do with 'showing credentials...not sure how you read that into it.

Like Mike said....when someone says split finger is the best way to shoot.....that is not true....it certainly is for ME....but might not be for someone else.

Like someone saying Gap is more accurate. ....again, it might be for THEM, but not EVERYONE....same with saying instinctive is more accurate....that's not true either for everyone.

Like saying 'the only way to XXX is to do it this way".  If someone says that, I can list a dozen ace shooters that do it another way.

Like saying 'this is the only way to draw the bow'....no it aint.

'Must hold vertical, ...You can't cant the bow the same way twice'....Oh yes you can, and you can cant it all sorts of ways and be accurate if you want to.

Please don't read any more into the original post....it was not intended as a slam on anyone....just hauling in the reigns a bit.

Believe me....I am very thankful for this forum and the folks that post here....you wont find another one like it on the net....I just want to keep it that way.

 

[shortstroke 91]

Man Terry I wish you had posted this about 6 years ago when I was trying to learn how to shoot. I tried my best to emulate what I saw other people doing when they shot "lights out"(including you) and it wrecked my shooting for nearly 2 years. Everyone has their own style and they have to find it for themselves, it may be a mixture of 5 different ways they've seen and it's up to them to discover. We can all agree on the basics (form, good release, and consistency) but after that it's up to the individual.

Thanks to all the moderators/supporters for doing what you do to keep this site what it is...

[Winterhawk1960]

Thanks Terry !!!!! That is some of the BEST advice ever posted here. I have, and continue to learn from a lot of different posters here. I give things an "honest chance" and they either work for me......or they don't.

We are ALL different, and I agree, whole-heartedly.

Winterhawk1960

[GreyGoose]

Great thread.  It's always helpful when someone is able to say WHY they think something works well for them, because it might not apply to others whose, size strength, vision, mindset, etc. are altogether different.

[Javi]

Absolutes are the reason I don't usually get involved in the Internet coaching I see on forums like this, absolutes are also the reason I resigned from the NAA/US Archery as a coach... I refuse to believe that every archer should be cut from the same mold. That may be fine when taking kids and training them from birth to be automatons but it usually won't work with adults who have formed bad habits and aren't nearly as supple in mind or body.

A coach should build on the strengths and work to correct the weakness of their students not mold them into their idea of the perfect archer... The end result should reflect the students goals not the coach's.

[smokin joe]

It seems that in archery the act of shooting is an art more than it is a science -- and that any proposed absolutes have exceptions. Good post, Terry -- and a good reminder to all of us that respect is still the primary attribute of TradGang. And being respectful might just include admitting that absolutes are few and far between.
Joe

[mrjsl]

Shooting a bow is a game that's been around for a long time and has been tried by millions.

Take a look at another game that's been around for a long time, and has been tried by millions - hitting a baseball:

Check this out:  

If there was one best way to hit a baseball, all batters would do it the same way. However, in hitting, as in archery, the end result is what counts. If a guy looks like a spastic chimpanzee at the plate and hits the ball out of the park a lot, guess what? They let him keep hitting it out.

Both acts have a huge mental aspect to them, and mental approach is very subjective and thus different for everyone. It's about how things feel TO YOU. There are fundamentals, but so long as you operate within the framework of the fundamentals, you can succeed in many different ways. Some people have more talent for it, and some people have less, and if you have less, there is probably not a scientifically repeatable way for you to equal what the greatest shots/hitters can do.

[zetabow]

Terry I understand Archery has many styles with even more form choices but dont you think this post will stifle free speach on this forum, I can see a lot of people feeling very reluctant to post on certain form topics for fear of crossing some unseen line you just created. How is that going to help people solve form issues or learn anything new?

[McDave]

I don't think Terry is trying to discourage anyone from expressing their opinions about shooting issues.  Rather than someone saying something like, "this is the proper way to do (whatever)," say "this is the way I like to do (whatever)," and I think you'll be fine.

[MikeW]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
I am beginning to see a pattern continue that is not good for folks trying to learn how to shoot.  Everyone is built different, and are mentally different.  To make absolute statements and include everyone to one mandate is not doing the students wanting to learn any good.

I'm not going to get into all the absolutes I've been seeing here on this thread....but be aware, from here on out, if I see someone proclaiming an absolute/only one way/must do this way.....I'm going to call BS.

Not trying to be an A$$ here, but trying to help folks find their way.  My way is NOT the best for everyone....and neither is anyone elses.  I'm on one end of the spectrum, and my friend Jason Wesbrock is on the other.  It would be a train wreck if he was FORCED to start shooting like me, and I like him.  We both have our own way an style that work for our make up.  One common thread between us?....proper alignment and accuracy....all the rest is as different as night and day....and that's OK!!!


We all need to find what works best for our individual make up, and we need to put the pieces of the puzzle together for ourselves and not have other's forcing a piece that wont fit.

Again, I'm glad we have so many hear wanting to help....but lets remember...there's more than one way to skin a cat....and we really don't know the entire make up of those wanting to learn to skin the cat....he might be the one figuring the trajectory to the moon, or the one flying the rocket....lets don't let them switch jobs at blast off.

             

Glad you said something about this, I've known my form hasn't been right for years but I seemed to hit OK out to 20 yards(softball sized groups) 3 years ago I went broke and lost all my archery gear. I just got it back and decided to get serious about my form and really tuning my arrows correctly, I watched your videos and a bunch on YouTube about proper form and a good release and although my form has improved a 100% now I can't seem to hit diddly. I find myself focusing on my form and then aiming which I don't think I really did before. I use to just stare and burn a hole where I wanted to hit, draw the bow and when I hit anchor(whole other story)it was gone. I was also bent at the waist a little with the bow canted doing this and now am standing straight up with the bow straight up. I won about $300 one night hitting beer caps at 15 yards with some co-workers at $5 a shot. Am pretty frustrated right now but know it's just a matter of time and 1000's of shots till my form is not a thought any more and am back to aiming like I use too. I know the posts you are talking about and always thought the poster was pretty arrogant. There is always a proper or a technically right way to do anything in life and then there are those folks who break all the rules and just seem to excel at it and then all the techno folks will tell them you can't do it like that. I use to play a lot of baseball in my youth and pitched sidearm my coaches had a fit and tried to break me of it, I listened but could never pitch overhand like I could sidearm, they finally gave up on it caused what I did worked and they didn't have anyone better. Same when my teachers tried to force me to write right handed when I wanted to write left handed. My 2 cents is if it works for you stick with it and do it over and over and over til you don't even think about it anymore. The only reason am trying to change now is I've never been able to shoot past 20-25 yards worth a crap and know it must because of my form and know if I fixed my form til it's second nature I'll be able to shoot out to 40+ yards which is my goal.

[TRAD101]

I agree with Terry 100% and would sight the example of Fred Asbell's advise in all of the books he has written over the years. After he explains how he goes about any particular part of the shooting process he almost always finishes with the statement that this is not the only way to do it,but it is the way that works best for him. I have always respected him for saying that and at the same time it seems to make it easier to give his advise a try knowing that it does not have to work for me but it might.