Target Panic Reality Check

[Donald]

Clickerman,
I have been mulling over something you said on your last post for several days.   What do you mean by speaking  the mantra with a rhythm? If this is this something that humans do naturally, I wonder if  is this not also the same subconcious rhythm that occurs naturally in sports when one is playing well (ie golf, basketball, tennis, ect.)?  Is this a similar controlled rhythm you are trying to achieve in archery?  If done consistently, does  this eventually become a sub conscious rhythm?  Is this what the subconscious naturally wants to do, but if the "mechanics" are not correct, then problems occur?

I am just wondering out loud.  The very best athletic endeavors often occur when the athlete is "in the zone", but it usually takes a lot intelligent work to get there.

[Footed Shaft]

Clickerman, great post  
Shot execution should always be more important than arrow location ( funny thing is the better the shot execution, the better the location and groups. )
What is this " Tab sear" that you spoke about in your original post ?
Bill

[cch]

Bill, There are pics on page 4. That is a prototype but easy to make.

[Ed Q]

I have to say - even though I've had the pleasaure of speaking at length with Mr. Turner over the phone, I still refer back to this thread at least several times a week to go over many of the great points made in it.  This thread is awesome for those of us with TP, and considering all the TP questions and threads we get on here, I think it'd be great if it could be made into a sticky.

[CLICKERMAN]

Donald,

When I am talking about the rhythm of the mantra, I am referring to the rate at which you are telling your muscles to move.  The words of the mantra put your conscious mind in a specific muscle group and the rhythm at which the mantra is said is the rate at which the muscles will move.  For example, Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling, is said in a smooth rhythm if you want your muscles to move smoothly.  If the rhythm is choppy, or incremental, with gaps in between the key phrases in the mantra, ie. Keep Pulling.........Keep Pulling...........Keep Pulling, you will find that the muscles move in the same incremental fashion.  Every time you say the key phrase of the mantra, you are sending the conscious mind to that muscle group.  The revolving rhythm traps the conscious mind in the muscle group and does not allow it to wander because there are no gaps in the speech pattern.  This is much easier to explain with verbal examples so if this explanation does not work for you, please call me so I can give you some better examples.

Thanks for the question.  This thread is made to get people thinking about what is going through their head during a shot.

Take Care,

JT

[cjgregory]

Donald wrote:  "I am just wondering out loud. The very best athletic endeavors often occur when the athlete is "in the zone", but it usually takes a lot intelligent work to get there."

Interesting point Donald.  I think I should clear the "zone" up.  The zone is NO CONCIOUS THOUGHT!!!  It is all action or reaction based on a level of skill or experience acquired through training.

Once a person no longer needs his conscious mind to perform an action or reaction he is able to enter the "zone".  He just does it.  He is completely and utterly in present time.  There is no past or future.  If you have an upset at home and it is running in the back of your mind during the day it will be difficult to drop into the zone because the "past" upset is operating in present time.  Your "game" will be a little off.

On the other hand if you are thinking even a little about the outcome of the shot or the future result of a competition you will not be in the present but in the "future".  This will not allow you into the zone.
 
I start my shot sequence with a statement in my analytical mind.  After that there is nothing as the training or "form" that has been engrained from the past is now in control.  This is why people drop right back into their old form issues.  That past program (form) will take over and start running.  This is how our minds are designed.  It’s a survival mechanism.

You cannot do two things at once.  You can take this one to the bank.  So to aim is a single thought or task.  This means that your program (form) will run on its own.  Whatever dominant form program is in your subconscious rules.  If it contains bad habits they will come back when you are no longer thinking about form and are aiming or even worse…when about to shoot at an animal.

Target panic is what I call an organized confusion.  I had it only briefly.  The only real way that I know of to instill a new program (form) is to not think about anything else.  This means aiming cannot or shouldn’t be performed while drilling in a new form program to the automated functions of the subconscious.  Aiming at the same time makes it two things.  This goes against the characteristics of the subconscious mind.  

Drill in the form until it is set.  This means that there is no “target panic” in form drilling as you can concentrate on each step of your sequence up to and including the hold to squeeze your back muscles until release.  There is no aiming.  In fact, aiming is what gets one to target panic to start with.  Two or more things at once.  Organized confusion.  A man can go from no target panic to target panic the second he changes anything that differs from the program that is already running in his subconscious from the previous 10,000 shots he’s made before.

Once a form program is instilled and drilled an drilled…he has all the time in the world to aim or hold or let down if he changes his mind.  He is only doing one thing…aiming.  If anything is off or not optimum he will let down.  Professionals let down when it’s not right.  That subconscious little warning goes off in the recesses of his mind.

I did not progress until I went to the range every day and blank baled over and over and over.  Now that I am going up to the next level even higher I am doing it again.  A mantra is used to start or engage a subconscious mental program.  After that the program takes over.  There is no “thinking”  just an existence in present time.  

I think that the problem that exists is that some archers (not all by any stretch) either do not know how the subconscious works or are confused on the subject or are just plain not willing to blank bale shoot and forget targets and aiming exist long enough to engrain a new subconscious program.  It’s a lot of work and only those willing to do the work will advance to the next level.

[Footed Shaft]

Clickerman, any interest in selling a couple of those tabs? Maybe with calf hair faces on them?
Bill

[CLICKERMAN]

Footed Shaft,

I am trying to get my hands on some cordovan leather right now.  I have some kydex for the plates.  I could make some if I know where to get calf hair????  Any ideas?

JT

[Footed Shaft]

I have a few chunks i could send you if ya like.
Bill
P.S
What is Kydex ?

[Footed Shaft]

Joel, i have 2 pieces of calf hair that measure 6x6 . I can send you one if you like.
I would love to see the tab sear in use ( video ) if you can make one.
Bill

[Footed Shaft]

TTT, this needs to stay near the top of the page.
    Bill

[CLICKERMAN]

Bill,

I just replied to your pm.  Kydex is a thick plastic that is used for holsters.  It can be heated and formed to specs.  It can also be ground and drilled.  It is great material for tab plates.  Great idea on the video, I will see what I can do in the near future.  A quick call to me will give you a good overview of the tab sear concept, in the meantime.

Take Care,

JT

[knobby]

Joel, Last weekend I headed to my friends cabin in northern Wisconsin for our annual spring scouting weekend. We always have time to shoot a bunch of arrows, and he commented that in thirty years of knowing me, he'd never seen me able to anchor, aim and execute a shot. Now, it was just the two of us, so there wasn't any "pressure" shots, but it still works. Since talking to you a few weeks ago, I've been able to go to indoor league night and do the same. I would certainly recommend your method to any fellow TP sufferers. Thank you!

[jason.fletcher]

I have been watching this thread for a while. I was wondering if anyone else counts or shoots after a set phrase. If I choose to hold for five I shoot on or around five sometimes less if the shot seems perfect and I don't want to wait. That sometimes gets me into trouble though. Is it okay to set a count for a trigger? I find it to be the best way to distract myself-- especially in front of people.

[Flingblade]

Jason,  I'm certainly not the expert here but what Joel talks about is an unanticipatory trigger to achieve a surprise release.  When you count you are distracting yourself to gain control but at some point the subconcious will figure it out and short circuit your shot sequence again.  There are many patches that will work short term to gain control of tp but Joel's system has given me more control for the longest period of time and over time confidence in your shot sequence will really increase.  Just my 2 cents.  Best of luck!

[xtrema312]

Interesting thread.  I went looking for some info on a clicker and how to best mount it.  I have developed some TP, and figure I would give the clicker a try to straighten myself out.  I always shot with a more static release and for the most part with some recognition of the arrow in my vision, but no intentional specific gaping.   Over the last two years, I have been working on fixing up my form and more of a dynamic release.  This winter I worked a lot more on improving my dynamic release.  I was feeling like I really had everything working well so I started to concentrate more on intentional aiming.  Everything was going great for a couple weeks until one day I started having issues settling into my anchor and then could not get a full draw.   TP has hit.   It seem like everything went south after I got out of my normal routine of concentrating more on the shot process and got more into intentional aiming.  Now to fix myself.

I have found that I have been able to overcome it at shorter ranges.  I have worked up to about 12-15 yd. with fairly consistent anchor and release.  Some days I can shoot farther out, but most times I hit the wall at about 15 yd. I am slowly trying to program my brain that it can settle down and make the shot at longer distances.

I have been able to anchor solid take a good look at the item I want to hit and pull through the shot at longer ranges on small items in the yard.  I can also hold solid and pull while aiming at something I have no intention of shooting.  I think I may go to stump shooting and shooting at leaves in the yard to help reprogram.    After a couple shots at small random targets or holding on say a spot in space or on a tree I can make a good solid shot on a target, but it does not last very many shots. I defiantly have a metal block shooting at my typical targets.  

I am trying not to figure out if I should mount the clicker, try the feather thing, or go to more stump shooting and working on getting out of this slump without the psycho trigger.

[CLICKERMAN]

xtrema312,

I would be great if you would give me a call.  I can explain what is happening to you, we can talk about the clicker, or an other psychotrigger.  I will explain the science behind what is happening to you, but it sounds like you are trying the long, and eventually unsuccessful route of trying to fix your target panic.  I realize some people don't want to shoot with a psychotrigger.  It is more important that you understand the mental mechanics of the shot.  Then you can make your own decision about your system and how you want to approach your cure.  

Talk to you soon,

Joel Turner  253-686-3623

[xtrema312]

I will give you a call Joel when I am out of work and can talk for a while.  

It seems to me that I have created a short-range form shot sequence that works fine when I don’t have to hit anything, but in the process or that I messed up my longer-range shot process.  

This AM before work I went out and just drew the bow a couple times into space and held it feeling back tension and fingers on the string.  I pulled into the shot and held for a few seconds.  Then I went through the same process on a few leaves in the yard without a shot.  Next, I started full draw concentrating on different objects I may shoot.  Next, I started taking shots at leaves round the yard at all different ranges.  Very well executed shots with great anchor, back tension, and relaxed shot follow through.  No issues at all.  After that I tood one 25 yd. shot on a 3D target and another about that range on a bag target.  Great shots one and all.  I don’t think I am too far gone, but need to fix it for sure.  I think a lot of my problem is too many repetitive shots at the same target.  I have drilled my brain to line up fast and somewhere along the line the slow pull at anchor and through the shot got lost.

[Flingblade]

I have been trying a new mantra.  I was having trouble with "keep pulling".  I can only guess as to the psychological aspect but the word "keep" to me means continue doing something I am already doing and I would say it over and over and not get the arrow back as back tension wasn't increasing so I am now saying "pull stronger, pull stronger".  This word association tells my back muscles to increase back tension and is working much better for me.

[CLICKERMAN]

Flingblade,

Use whatever mantra that gets you to concentrate on the muscles that are required for that action.  You can make up your own neurolinguistic programs but you must test them under stress.  Stress like adrenaline will test your business.  If your mantra is not hard wired enough, stress will conquer it.  So use it, but make sure you test it.  Good work sir!!!!

JT