Target Panic Reality Check

[Tim]

Hi Joel,

When I first started shooting a traditional bow as a kid I had zero instruction, so I just ripped it back and let it go.  When I decided to start hunting with a recurve in 88 I followed one of the only instructional shooting books I could find and soon found my style was nothing more than a modified rip it back and let it go.   When I tried to anchor hold and release I shook, plucked and forward released.  A true mess I fought for 20+ years.  One day I just changed to right handed and started from scratch.  

I don't have any problem drawing, anchoring and executing my shots but I do practice my form religiously every day.  I like the mantra idea so I've been working with it the past week.   Here is what I've found.

If my mantra has more than one word I find myself using the words like numbers, similar to counting.  That really screwed me up.  What I've found that works is this.  I come into my anchor and when I feel my index finger on my check bone I smoothly say pulllllllllllll.   I draw the word out like a deep exhaling breath.  Some where in there the release just happens without me thinking about it.   When I used the words "keep pulling" I could feel my concentration and back tension hesitate in between the words!   With that mantra I would have to tell myself to release which caused mental havoc.

At anchor saying any word even to myself expels air, loosing shoulder expansion????  Shouldn't I be inhaling when the release happens?

Great thread, thanks for sharing your expertise!

Tim

[GMASIUK]

Hi Joel, thanks again for taking time to help me out yesterday. I have been really struggling the past few years. It's time for me to nip this TP issue in the bud.

I watched your section on MBB3 last night and again this morning. And everything you said makes perfect sense.

I was able to shoot tonight after work, I shot 24 arrows from 10 to 20 yards and only had two that were not in complete control. I used the mantra and pulled through my clicker. I released on the surprise of the click and that is new to me, and very cool.

I didn't dwell on accuracy just the shot control and sequence. I was very surprised that the the accuracy was there and I didn't really even have to think about it. It just sort of happened.

I can say that, I was very tired after that short shooting session. That must be do to holding longer than I am used to while pulling through the clicker.

I have a week to practice before my next league shoot, that will be the true test. I going to go in to it with the mind set of not worry about score and just making every shot a controlled one.

I will post again next week with my progress. Thank you, Glen

[GMASIUK]

Update.... I had my tuesday night league shoot this week and was able to hold it together and control each and every shot. I will continue to use the "keep pulling" mantra and pull through my clicker.

Thanks again Joel for the time you spent on the phone with me. I really appreciate your help. Glen

[CLICKERMAN]

Glen,

Great work sir, keep up the concentration practice!!!!  You must seek stress to test your system.  Constant tests of the system will give you the skills to really know what is in your head during a shot so you can tell if a shot is going to be perfect or not.  Great to hear you are doing well.  Make the choice to shoot only those shots that are perfect in concentration.

Tim,

It sounds as if you are still allowing the subconscious to tell itself when to release.  Just by your answers, I can tell that you are still thinking about too many things in your shot.  If you continue to allow the subcon to tell itself when to release, it will start to shortcut that shot and instead of getting through your pullllllll, you may start to release in the start of the word instead of within the word.  I am not saying this WILL happen, but it definitely the norm with this type of no psychotrigger shot.

The mantra is supposed to control a movement that gets you to the goal of a psychotrigger, it is not supposed to be used to activate the shot itself.  Please call me so I can explain.  You are on the right track but I don't want the gremlin to learn your shot and start to shortcut it.  253-686-3623  I look forward to hearing from you.

Take Care,

JT

[khardrunner]

I'm still working with this and I am looking for ideas for the shot trigger. I'm a glove only guy so the tab sear won't work. I'm playing with feathers to the nose but I'm not consistent with when the feathers get there. A lot of times, I draw right to where the feathers are hitting my nose right off the bat.

Any other ideas for psyco triggers for release?

[Mazz]

I've had one form or another of target panic for many years.I think i got off on the wrong foot early on when i was a teen.I'm 69 now and still have problems with it,though I've tried many things including a clicker,lower bow weight,you name it.lately,ive been breaking down and saying the shot sequence as I go.I start saying,anchor,witch I can achieve,(if I start above my intended mark),then elbow up,then get a sight picture,and try to pull the string through the fingers.problem latley has been,when coming down to the intened mark,i can't stop and settle,and let go as I come down---no good

[CLICKERMAN]

Gentlemen,

Please give me a call and I will see what I can do for you.  I have had a ton of callers so far and it has been great speaking to everyone about this issue.  I believe I can help.  253-686-3623

JT

[jason.fletcher]

I've been using a shot sequence, stance, draw, anchor, aim, and contract -- until by string touches my ball cap bill -- when I touch the bill, I release. It's an easily adjustable psycho trigger. I know it's not perfect, but I shoot split finger and anchor in the corner of my mouth, so the cock feather doesn't really come close to anything. It seems to be working.... I'm bald and white, so a hat is always part of my shooting gear anyway.

[Mazz]

Joel,after talking to you on the phone about my problem,I have to say I wish someone would have given me such advice 55+ years ago.I really didn't want to put a clicker on my bow(s),but if the boogyman takes over again,I will.I really did't know what the word matra meant,now i get it.I have ,almost immediatly been able to separate the aiming part of the shot,from the actual release.I now can let down,if things don't feel or look right before the final "keep pulling,keep pulling" matra.I was able to try the press trigger,using the thumb and jawbone.it worked also,butI seems to cup the drawing hand a little. Anyway ,the technique you discribed has given me the ability to separate the concience from the unconcious.
  Many Thanks for the help.

[Mazz]

Excuse me,Thats mantra,not matra.

[CLICKERMAN]

Good work folks.  Call if you have any questions or concerns.  Remember to only shoot the shot if it is perfect in concentration.  You must know what is going through your head before you can control your thoughts during the shot.  Does me good to hear of your successes.

Take Care,

JT

[Overspined]

I sent you a txt and hope you can receive them.  I would like to get in line to chat.  

Thanks!

Matt

[GMASIUK]

Hi Joel I just wanted to thank you again for taking time to help me with my shooting. Calling you was the single best thing I ever did to improve my shooting.

I  am improving every time I shoot. I only shoot arrows that are in control and with complete concentration. Or I don't shoot and let down, it's that simple.

Guys Joel is the real deal! If your reading this post and think you show any signs of target panic symptoms give him a call he can help you.

Joel I hope some day to meet you and shake your hand. You saved my shooting. Thank you, Glen

[Mazz]

I had a setback.Seems like the gremlins came back with a vengance yesterday.I had the same problem separating the aim,from the keep pulling mantra.i couldn't even get passed saying keep before I let go.I worked at it today and what seem to help was really marrying up to the cheekbones at anchor,such as Moebow shows in his videos.Then I do the "let it dance on spot,before the keep pulling.Seemed to help a lot.

[Gene R]

I can identify with Mazz on this. I am using Joel's system of using the mantra, keep pulling keep pulling,and it works however at times I would not be able to get on the spot before I would release. What I have been doing is trying to seperate out the concentration of external focusing and internal focusing. What I do is, before I draw the bow I say EXTERNAL, this tells my mind to focus on the spot, to get on it, while I draw. I then say, STOP, when I get to anchor, checking the aim. I then say the word INTERNAL, Telling me to start focusing on the proper shot sequence,takeing my focus off the aim totally to my form. I them use the mantra, keep pulling, keep pulling while looking at the spot, until the shot is off,  concentrating on, internal thoughts. I have found out this helps me to seperate out the aim from the shot sequence, giving me more control of my target panic and associated problems. Seems like alot to do, but so far has been working for me. Maybe this can help someone else too.

[CLICKERMAN]

Fellas,

If you are still allowing the subconscious to tell itself when to release, you are starting down the path of target panic again.  Your subconscious is begining to learn your shot and starting the process of shortcutting it.  This is the natural progression of target panic.  The mantra is to be used to get you to your psychotrigger, not to the release!!!!  The mantra gets you to concentrate on a movement that gets you to the goal of a psychotrigger.  If you are simply using the mantra and not incorporating a psychotrigger, you are building a shot that will be affected by stress.  By allowing the gremlin to release the string whenever he wants, you are not cutting him out of the shot.  That is why you are having to come up with other mantras to change your thought process.  They too, may only work for a short time.

This is really a system that must incorporate some type of non-anticipatory psychotrigger.  If not, there is no goal for the movement and the subconscious is still allowed to tell itself when the release should happen.  Remember, the psychotrigger is a the "GO" signal for the gremlin to release.  If you don't give him a signal, he will let it go when he wants, which is always a shortcutted system.  Please call with questions if you are having trouble with your shot.  I can explain things much better on the phone or in person  253-686-3623

JT

[Overspined]

I hate the clicker. I seem to like the tab sear concept, and I don't feel like I am forced to draw past where I like to be. I need to figure out how to make one for a shooting glove.  I used my finger over thumb and liked it more than than the clicker.  And I REALLY appreciate your time, Joel!

[Greg Dearth]

Joel I sent you a PM.

[poekoelan]

A question or two, but first some background

I got over a bad case of target panic about a year and half ago, I couldn't believe how long I was inflicted with it and how only a few sessions of shooting started to show improvement. Long story short, I read books about instinctive shooting where I was told to aim during the draw and release as soon as I touched my anchor. Couple this with being a bit over bowed and years and years of frustrating shooting followed.

But dropping a little weight coupled with how I viewed the whole shot process really started to help. I'd like to say I never once fired an arrow at a blank bale, only because I was afraid that if I didn't somehow aim, I'd destroy my arrow or put a hole in my garage. After I was a little confident, I began cruising this forum and trying to follow advice on form and that helped things even more.

Now to my questions:

1. What exactly is a physco trigger and how does it eliminate the subconcious? Most "instinctive" shooters will tell you in not so many words to ignore the the conscious mind and just let the shot take care of itself. This has never worked for me, in fact I believe this was the root of my target panic. Once I started to break down the shot process and do things very deliberately ( instead of subconcsiously ) things started to improve.

2. The word "physco" implies something in the mind, but from what I gather from your explaination it seems to be able to be broken down into something that results in proper physical form, hence the mantra of keep pulling. Continuing to pull insures that all the proper lines of force are met to get the arrow to go where it is pointed. Is my thinking correct on this?

Please excuse my long winded post, but having suffered so long from target panic I now find myself with a need to understand it better.

[Green]

Inquiring minds want to know.