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Author Topic: Target Panic Reality Check  (Read 17689 times)

Offline ericmerg

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #160 on: June 08, 2012, 12:49:00 AM »
start up close picking a spot and work your way back i did the same thing pick a spot 3" after the arrow clears the bow approx 2 yards away and do that  50 times  do it intill you dont snap shoot it at that distance then take 1 step back and repeat 50 shots etc
 keep doing this for a month increasing 1 step at a time  once i hit 10 yards i jumped to 20 yards and found my mind had rewired itself i now hold for 2-3 seconds
any animal you see posted that i say i personally harvested was eaten

" if you have to question if your bow will work you dont have enough bow"

Offline CLICKERMAN

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #161 on: June 08, 2012, 10:53:00 AM »
Dan,

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.  I am in Montana right now away from home.  I will keep this brief because I am typing on my phone.  I am not a huge believer in the bridge program because it works in the subconscious.  It trains the subcon and if that has worked for some people, more power to them.  However, the fix lies in knowing how to concentrate and what to concentrate on during a shot.  I have had 71 people call me at this point and a good number of them have been involved in the bridge program with little sustained success because the bridge program still allows the subcon to tell itself when to release.  That fact alone is the natural progression of target panic.  It is not natural for the subcon to hold the draw while in perfect aim.  It is natural for the subcon to be as efficient as it can be.  That is why it will always attempt to shortcut the system and either start to short draw or not be able to aim while at full draw.  Again, for those that use the bridge with success, I commend you.  I just don't think it is as robust of a shot as truly knowing how to concentrate on a movement that gets you to a psychotrigger.  

I will write out the complete system again when I get to my computer.  Also, I will apologize in advance to those archers that are using the bridge program with success.
Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Offline ericmerg

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #162 on: June 08, 2012, 11:56:00 AM »
the bridge program just broke my mind from auto release i still use the mantra for getting proper back tension
any animal you see posted that i say i personally harvested was eaten

" if you have to question if your bow will work you dont have enough bow"

Offline CLICKERMAN

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #163 on: June 08, 2012, 12:12:00 PM »
Dan,

I found a computer where I am staying!!!  So here it is.  The reason your nemesis keeps coming back is because you may not know how to concentrate.  Analyze your first shots when you tried the feather to nose technique.  The first few may have been ok, but what were you thinking about????  I would venture to guess that you were thinking about the feather and when it was going to touch your nose.  If you are thinking about the trigger, you will never get to the trigger.  You have to think about and do the movement that gets you to your trigger!!!!  That is done by focusing the concentration through the use of the mantra.  If pulling is the movement that gets you to the feather, then the mantra is KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING...said in a revolving rhythm.  You are talking directly to the muscles that are required for the action you are talking about (mantra).  The mantra is the concsious mind's natural way of getting you to concentrate.  

What are you thinking about when you shoot a blank bale shot?  Blank bale shooting allows you more freely concentrate because there is no aiming involved.  If there is no aiming, the subcon and the con are involved in all other aspects of the shot and they are working pretty well together.  As soon as aiming becomes a factor, the subcon will naturally take over the entire shot and make it as efficient as it can.  It will usually try to shortcut the system and leave you short drawing or frozen off target.  When you have to aim a shot, what are you thinking about?????  If you are thinking about anything other than a movement that gets you to the trigger, the subcon is left to shoot the entire shot for you, as effeciently as it can, not the best that it can.  You have to remember that it makes no sense to the subcon to hold on a target, it just wants to get the body out of tension as soon as possible.

You really have to analyze your shot and recognize what you are thinking about during a shot.  Only when you know what you are thinking, will you be able to control what you are thinking.  The mantra is a natural tool to direct concentration.  What you say, is what you think.  Therefore, you are talking yourself through this shot using the proper neurolinguistic programs (action words) to make yourself concentrate on the movement that gets you to your trigger.

Any shot without a psychological trigger is a shot left to the subcon.  And we know that subcon, in most of us, will shortcut the system in one way or another.  There is an autopilot for most aspects of the shot, but not the shot activation.  If you leave that part to the autopilot, he will fly you into the mountain every time.  

With all of that said, your shot sequence is very simple but takes a major decision on your part.  You have to make a decision that you are not going to shoot a shot unless it is perfect in concentration.  Meaning, you have to know very intimately what is going through your mind at full draw.  If it is not perfect, don't shoot the shot, there is no one with a gun to your head making you shoot the arrow. If the shot is not perfect in concentration, let down, and ask yourself, what was I thinking about during that shot.  Once you start to recognize your thoughts, you will be on your way to controlling your thoughts.  You should be able to stop a bad shot before it happens because you will recognize that something is not right, your thoughts are not correct in some way.

So your shot sequence is as follows:  Draw back and aim.  Once the aim is complete, start your mantra, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING... until the feather touches your nose or you hit whatever trigger you are using (clicker, tab sear, etc.).  The rest of the shot takes care of itself.  Notice I didn't mention the release.  The release is triggered by the psychotrigger subconsiously.  You shouldn't have to think about releasing.  You are basically keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the go signal.  As long as you have made a decision to release when you feel the trigger, the shot will be away as a surprise if the trigger was hit as a surprise.

The trigger is the final goal of the pulling.  The trigger should hit as a byproduct of your pulling.  Your concentration, once again, is on the movement that gets you to your trigger.  If you don't feel your muscles moving, THEY AIN'T MOVIN'!!!!!  If you don't feel the back muscles moving or your elbow rotating, that means your mind is not in the right spot and you should let down.

So let's say you are in the middle of a shot.  You have drawn back and aimed, so far so good.  You start your mantra and you feel the muscles moving.  You are thinking, keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling, man when is this feather gonna hit!!!!  That thought that went to the feather needs to be recognized and the shot needs to be let down.  It will only take a few of these recognitions and you will really start to analyze the thoughts.  

The mental mechanics along with the culmination of a psychotrigger is the most robust under stress shot that I have ever experienced.  I have been through the gammut of target panic and all of the "Cures" that go along with it.  It was not until I developed the use of neurolinguistic programming in the shot process that I truly have beaten this demon.  But it takes discipline on the part of the shooter to recognize those natural tendencies of the subconcious gremlin to shortcut the system.  Just as in the  bridge system, if a shot is not perfect, you have to go back and do it again, but the bridge program does not tell you how to do it right the next time from a mental perspective.  That is why the bridge program takes so long and the end result is a shot that is still totally controlled by the subcon.

This shot allows the subcon to do what it does best, aiming, stance, grip, and breathing.  But it does not allow the subcon to tell itself when to release.  Therefore, it has no way to shortcut the system.  You are consciously keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the "GO" signal to release.

As mentioned earlier, I have had 71 callers so far and I invite all of those with questions about this system to please call me.  If the writing does not make sense or you have further questions on how to implement the system, I invite all archers to call.  I am trying to kill the demon of target panic.  It does not need to exist, but but target panic is NATURAL, that is why so many of us archers are plagued by its wrath.  

I am starting a shooting school to present this program in a hands on, stress scenario based format that will leave archers with a tool to be self sufficient in diagnosis and treatment of any shooting problems that arise with target panic or form issues.  So please keep that in mind if any of you would like me to come to your range or if you would like to travel to mine!!!

I hope this helps.  

JT
Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Offline CLICKERMAN

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #164 on: June 08, 2012, 01:24:00 PM »
All,

Here is another thought about shooting instructors and schools.  If you think about how instructors run their schools, they are usually talking their shooters through a shot.  Instructors, or anyone for that matter that is talking someone through a shot, has immense power over the shooter.  What the instructor is saying is where the conscious mind of the shooter will go.  Whether the instructor knows this or not.  That said, shooters usually shoot very well during a school but then those mental skills diminish quickly because the instructor did not tell the student how to talk themselves through a shot and the science that goes with those words.  For example, there is a very good instructor that tells his students to "HOLD, HOLD"  and then they are allowed to shoot the shot.  That instructor, whether they know it or not, is making the shooter think about HOLDING.  Also, the words start to become a psychotrigger, hence the archer releases on the D of the second HOLD.  The problem is, the science is not explained and the shooter is not left with a tool that makes them self sufficient in knowing how to concentrate.  After the school, the shooter starts to release on the H of second HOLD, and then the D of first HOLD, and so on until the first H never even gets said and the shot is gone before the archer wanted to release.

In whatever school someone chooses, they should be able to keep those learned skills going for the rest of their life with discipline.  A school that leaves the shooter with a totally subconscious shot is teaching, in my opinion, a shot that will eventually be broken by stress.  Many of the callers I have had have been to these schools and are now back in the same boat they started in, just now with better form.  I am not trying to take away from other instructors, I am just saying that as instructors, we owe it to our students to leave them with skills that will allow them to be successful long after the school is over.  The problems do not usually lie in the form realm, they lie in the mental realm.  It doesn't matter how well you can aim and how good your form may be if you can't even get your bow to full draw or get your arrow pointed to the right sight picture.  

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, these are just some thoughts that are running through my head.  After all, the name of this thread is "TARGET PANIC REALITY CHECK"
Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Offline bbell

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #165 on: June 08, 2012, 01:40:00 PM »
Where can I get a sear? I get way to much tension in my hand when I use the thumbnail and pinky nail.
Brandon

Offline deathwind

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #166 on: June 08, 2012, 02:31:00 PM »
Brandon, look back on this thread and look at the clicker that I attached to a tab. This works absolutely perfectly for me. Every time I shoot, I want to call Joel and thank him for this thread. This is the first time in 30 years that I have had complete control of my shot. By the way, I just shot a good bear about 3 weeks ago using Joel's method with the clicker tab and if I'm going to have any target panic problems, it will come up on a shot at game. I suppose because of the increased pressure that I put on myself. Anyway, I was able to make a perfectly executed shot on the bear. I felt like a kid at Christmas. If you need help making one of these tabs, send me a PM and I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks  again Joel for this thread and your insight,

Bill Mason

Offline bbell

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #167 on: June 08, 2012, 04:49:00 PM »
I will check it out. Thanks abunch.
Brandon

Offline robertson

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #168 on: June 10, 2012, 11:11:00 AM »
Very well explained the problem JOEL

Very good job   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:

Offline Yohon

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #169 on: June 10, 2012, 11:49:00 AM »
GREAT news Bill...WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :thumbsup:
"Take the time to take your time and enjoy the trip." Mike Bolin

Offline muley40

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #170 on: June 10, 2012, 12:05:00 PM »
Joel, I just made my 1st tab sear yesterday using my Cavalier tab and made the sear out of a old Pacesetter rest metal launching arm,I think I finally found a psychotrigger that will work for me, I have been sick and afflicted with TP  on and off since 1978, bought the Masters of the Barebow 4 last summer and your segment was a help and even better is this thread you started here, please keep the advice coming.
Would like to post the pictures of my tab, but I can`t figure out that photobucket if someone on this thread could post these pictures for me, I could email them to you,
Independent Bow Hunter

Offline Dan Jones

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #171 on: June 10, 2012, 01:01:00 PM »
For Joel Turner:  Thank you for your reply to my post, and thank you again for your efforts to help archers deal with the panic.  Best wishes in your endeavors, Dan Jones

Offline Randy Morin

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #172 on: June 10, 2012, 05:28:00 PM »
Joel...thanks so much for this thread.  I have been trying your system for about a year now since MBB.  I have not mastered it but I can see that it is the ticket to beating the panic.  I moved my feathers forward but tend to anticipate when they will touch my nose.  Lately they have not been making it to my nose...

It seems my muscles "lock" up at full draw and with my hand against my face my hand does not slide back any further allowing the feather to come back.  I am strong and not overbowed...

I really need to ramp up the emphasis in my mind of saying "keep pulling" I guess. The "tab" sear sounds like somthing I would really enjoy playing around with.  Is the tab sear quiet?

Well I wanted to say thanks so much for all that you are doing.

Online South MS Bowhunter

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #173 on: June 10, 2012, 06:21:00 PM »
Joel,

Appreciate the conversation this evening, and as soon as I can get back out in the yard this week will try and employee your techniques, thanks

Hope to report back with a good testimony of progress to recovery   :pray:
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

Offline Lambow

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #174 on: June 10, 2012, 11:00:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Randy Morin:
Joel...thanks so much for this thread.  I have been trying your system for about a year now since MBB.  I have not mastered it but I can see that it is the ticket to beating the panic.  I moved my feathers forward but tend to anticipate when they will touch my nose.  Lately they have not been making it to my nose...

It seems my muscles "lock" up at full draw and with my hand against my face my hand does not slide back any further allowing the feather to come back.  I am strong and not overbowed...

I really need to ramp up the emphasis in my mind of saying "keep pulling" I guess. The "tab" sear sounds like somthing I would really enjoy playing around with.  Is the tab sear quiet?

Well I wanted to say thanks so much for all that you are doing.
I went through a bit of this myself at first. What fixed it for me was not anchoring too hard against the face.
Just lightly touching the corner of the mouth at anchor, makes it easier to pull through to the feather while using the mantra/concentration.

Online South MS Bowhunter

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #175 on: June 10, 2012, 11:40:00 PM »
Muley40,  John Brant ask me to post his tab with the tab sear he modified for his Psychological trigger, here it is John.  I’m looking to add the third picture in a few minutes.

 

 
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

Online South MS Bowhunter

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #176 on: June 10, 2012, 11:43:00 PM »
Here the last one...

 
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

Online South MS Bowhunter

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #177 on: June 10, 2012, 11:46:00 PM »
John, not sure why the photo came out so small will see if I can get them bigger if need be.
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

Online South MS Bowhunter

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #178 on: June 10, 2012, 11:53:00 PM »
Here they are a little bigger any bigger and it gets too graining.

 

 

 
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

Online South MS Bowhunter

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Re: Target Panic Reality Check
« Reply #179 on: June 10, 2012, 11:54:00 PM »
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

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