Target Panic Reality Check

[Flingblade]

Malachi,
Joel teaches that the concious mind has two jobs in the shot process.  The first is drawing to anchor and aiming.  This is where you pick your spot and set your sight picture with whatever aiming method you choose.  You don't waste time with this job.  As Joel says "get it done".   This is why you wouldn't shoot midship on a deer. The second job of the concious mind is focused concentration on the action that gets you to your trigger, not on the trigger itself or aiming or anything else.  This is where the sub-concious mind takes over holding the aim.  I was a short drawer and instinctive snap shooter before target panic and now I use the feather to nose trigger.  This shot process is something you have to experience to understand and you won't experience it until your concious mind is concentrating completely on the action that gets you to your trigger.  Before using Joel's system 20 yards was a long shot for me.  I now regularly shoot at 40 and 50 yards.  If in stressful shot situations you are able to get to full draw and happy with your accuracy then you don't need to use Joel's system.  Just my 2 cents.
Gary

[cch]

I have never heard of anyone that had an animal spook because of the clicker going off. You can also quiet them down so you can hardly hear them. Larry Jones has hunted with one for as long as I can remember. Like flingblade stated, you pick your spot just like you do now but when you are at full draw you put your attention on the action it gets you to your trigger. I am using the clicker and focus with my mantra to Keep pulling until I hear the click. After I have this down I will probably try some of Joel's other methods that are more tournement accepted.

If you practice I would bet you could shoot really fast using a clicker or something else. Joel can shoot in about 2-3 seconds if he wants to.

I use to shoot really well with snap shooting. I even beat Joel several times shooting like that. The problem I was having was that I would short draw in some situations. Sometimes short drawing by 6". I would also have a tendacy to shoot over animals because I would rush just a little and my timing was off. But when relaxed and I had time to go through my whole process I would shoot just fine, including double lunging a deer at 50yds with two people wathching from a landing site of a clear cut. So I have been going back and forth with the way I wanted to shoot and I really like the way Joel shoots when the pressure is on. Now that I have changed the pressure is off for the most part and I think I can get it to the point that I don't care what the shot is or who is watching I will treat it just like any other shot. It doesn't matter if it is 5yds or 50yds or in front of 50 people, you still do the same thing.


Chris.

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Thanks for the reply Chris. That makes a lot more sense now. I will have to give it a try.

[CLICKERMAN]

Trumpkin,
I will be coming to Montana on the 4th of June.  Coming over to do some gopher shooting with my longbow.  Give me a call before jumping into this system.  

JT
253-686-3623

[Missouri CK]

Some of you are using the feather to nose trigger within this thread. I want to clarify what you guys have found both good and bad about using this type of psychotrigger.  I use a simmons broadhead as a drawcheck/psycho trigger. When it hits my knuckle on my bow hand as my trigger during most of my practice sessions and for hunting.  It has worked great but they frown on using broadheads during 3D tourny's so I have to find a system that will work for me when I'm at a shoot. The feather to nose seems to work at this point as I'm struggled with anything on my bow hand as it seems to screw up my concentration.

Thanks,
Chris

[knobby]

I'm switching to the feather-to-the-nose style this year. It takes a little time to determine the proper nock throat to feather distance for you, but once you have that figured out, it works great. I've shot with a release for the past 4 hunting seasons (TP), so this will be my first hunting with the new style. Good luck!

[cch]

I just left Joel in Montana. My wife and I were there shooting ground squirrels with Joel and his wife and son. I really got to test out his system shooting the little critters. I have no worries about shooting moving animals anymore.  I shot a squirrel at about 20yds and didn't kill it and it started going for his hole and I had to get an arrow on the string really fast and I pulled up and started my mantra Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling and click and I put an arrow right behind the shoulder while he was on the move with Joel looking on from above. I think he was proud.

Joel also gave my wife a crash course of his method and she was able to shoot a few squirrels also. One on video and one while Joel was standing right beside her. She normally gets real nervous shooting with Joel because he is real good. But she kept with her mantra and click Bam she smacked the little critter at about 18-20yds. She is very excited about this as she puts it, "Man that makes it easy"

[dragonheart]

I tried to use the BH touching my finger and it worked for a while.  I really do not like it.  It seems that the touch on the trigger finger of my left hand just aggravates things.  The other thing is being overbowed.  I am just stubborn.  I tell you I am shooting a lighter weight longbow and using something else that is not the point or the feather as the psychotrigger.  I just got back from stup shooting and my last shot I nailed a leaf at about 40 yrds.  In the last 3 day I have shot better with a lighter bow and use of a psychotrigger, than I have in the past 2 years!  I am done with heavy bows.  

Shoot the shot all the way through, never give up, and allow the shot to happen.

[Flingblade]

Chris Kinslow,
I have been using the feather to nose for awhile now and the only problem I have had is it is not as definite as some other triggers.  Sometimes after the shot I'll think it touched but really not sure.  With a clicker it either clicks or it doesn't.  You have to trust that you will know for sure and keep pulling.  Can also be a problem in cold weather when your nose is numb.  Joel suggested splicing in a section of vane at the end for a more solid feel in cold weather.  Now I have to learn how to splice.  I haven't used the clicker because I have had problems in the past with the clicker cord snagging in brush when hunting but I think I am going to order one and try it on one of my target bows.  Good luck with whatever trigger you choose.
Gary

[cch]

Flingblade, If you mount the clicker on the upper portion of the top limb you won't have much string there. Mine are about 10". So far I haven't had any trouble with snagging, but I haven't gone through anything really thick yet.

[knobby]

Flingblade, instead of splicing a piece of vane onto the back of a feather, why not just fletch with one vane and two feathers. The vane that will touch your nose shouldn't affect your arrow flight.

[Flingblade]

cch,
I know you have tried the feather to nose and tab sear.  Do you like the clicker better?  I tried the clicker many years ago before I learned Joel's system and didn't stick with it long.  Maybe I'll give it another try.  
knobby,
I'll give that a try.  I'm also going to set up one of my older bows with an elevated rest so I can use all vanes for wet weather hunting.
 Gary

[cch]

Yes, I do like the clicker the best. I think it is the easiest to use. Once you have mastered shooting with that and understand how to concentrate on the movement, then you can easily experiment with other methods.  I am committed to using it for a full year and then will try some other things. If you are good at using a gun then a tab sear might work for you. I think I will go back to the feather to nose because that will be legal at all shoots and it is the same movement as the clicker.
Chris.

[sloaf]

Been shooting with the clicker for a two weeks  now and what a difference.  I am like a zen master in comparison.   My mind is quiet an I am starting to drill stuff like i would as a teenager.   My shooting is much slower now and I wear out a lot faster.   55 lbs feels like a lot more weight now that I am in control and slowly pulling through to conclusion.   The time I am holding on target has increased and my mind doesn't spaz like it was.   After 30 shots I am spent.   My bow arm shakes and after a while one slips before the clicker and I know it's time to quit.   I will shoot a couple completely fatigued with my eyes closed, focus on pulling and hang it up.   All I can say is its working.   I may kill something again after all.  Thanks Joel.   I should have tried a clicker years ago but had this stigma in my head.

[cch]

Sloaf, Make sure you give yourself at least 20 seconds between shots. This will let your muscles regain full strength. I know I have a problem with shooting arrow after arrow and tire myself out.
Chris.

[Lee Lobbestael]

Hey guys I have tried all of these methods.  experimented with many more that have popped into my head. The one that has worked for me and has been working since January is this: With my bow hand I start with my index finger pointing toward target. When I am locked on I slowly curl my index finger inward untill it touches the tip of my thumb. When it my finger and thumb touch I release. It is alot like the ridge on the bow handle method that Joe is currently using but I can switch between bows and I don't have to mount anything on my self bows. Its very simple and easy to activate.

[Echatham]

Joel I am going to buy and watch MBB4 first, but is the offer still open to call you?  read the first 6 pages or so of this thread and i think this might be my cure. I only started traditional archery in November 2012, but I was doing great for a while. rarely missed a 3d target and was shooting 220-230 in a 300 round. for the last three weeks i can't get to anchor and i can't let down. last 3d shoot i missed 8 out of 30 targets. 8 out of 30! flat out missed, sometimes by feet. almost reluctant to shoot 3d because its getting expensive to break so many arrows.  so first, today, im going to go home and try what i learned from the first pages of this thread.  making the "draw", "aim", and "keep pulling keep pulling" three different things, and speak them aloud sounds like good medicine.  is that dvd you were talking about available yet?

[dragonheart]

Originally posted by Lee Lobbestael:
Hey guys I have tried all of these methods.  experimented with many more that have popped into my head. The one that has worked for me and has been working since January is this: With my bow hand I start with my index finger pointing toward target. When I am locked on I slowly curl my index finger inward untill it touches the tip of my thumb. When it my finger and thumb touch I release. It is alot like the ridge on the bow handle method that Joe is currently using but I can switch between bows and I don't have to mount anything on my self bows. Its very simple and easy to activate.

When I was a teen shooting field archery, there was one of the non-sight shooters in Texas that used his pinky finger as a psychotrigger.  He would draw to full draw, and at anchor slowly bring his bowhand pinky down onto the riser.  When it touched the arrow was loosed.  The man could shoot!  I remember he was a bodybuilder and shot 2117's with like 2 1/2"s of arrow sticking out in front of the bow, and big feathers.

Another archer shoots with the cricket or clickety clack clicker mounted on the back of the bow. by the pinky.  He presses on the clicker with his pinky at full draw and shoots when it clicks.

[Lee Lobbestael]

Dragonheart, Yeah that is essentially what I am doing. It has been working great for me because the trigger is so easy to activate. I was having trouble reaching the psychotrigger on some methods because they required to much physical effort to make them go off even with concentration.

[dragonheart]

So long as the psycho-trigger is without warning and a surprise break of the shot.  I believe that is the key.