Target Panic Reality Check

[BOHO]

I was shooting this afternoon and doing fairly well. Im finally starting to come around. I was almost done and then I thought of this thread. I drew back and settled in, then kept telling myself "keep drawing keep drawing keep drawing". Just when the feather hit the tip of my nose, the arrow was gone, all the time I was focusing on the small spot I was hoping to hit. I was fairly close but I came all the way back where I wanted so that was more important to me. Tomorrow will be more practice. Makes me feel bad though that the bow is only 42#'s or so and I can only shoot about 10 minutes without it wearing me out.     :rolleyes:

[Flingblade]

Joel,
I would like to try the tab sear.  Seems to me that the tab sear would be a static release and the feather to nose is a dynamic release.  Did you have any difficulty switching from dynamic to static?  One idea if you start making them is have 3 or 4 holes pre-punched in the tab so the shooter could mount the sear in the position that best fits their hand.  I'll take a large 3 under when you get to that point.  
Terry,  You are well advised to avoid threads such as this being target panic free.  If you see other archers that exhibit symptoms of target panic you would be well advised to  activate your fight or flight mechanism as this disease is highly contagious.  Your best bet is flight if at all possible as fighting just makes the gremlin stronger.  Best of luck!
Gary

[cch]

Flingblade, You don't have to have a static release. You never stop with the back tension and when the sear goes off the release is instantaneous and your hand goes back. A static release is usually caused by anticipating the release and your muscles stop pulling because they know you are going to let go.
Chris.

[CLICKERMAN]

The tab I am designing has a slot cut for the sear to it can be adjusted in numerous different angles and positions.  Just have to get my hands on some Horween Cordovan!!!!!

Well said CCH, you are right on the money.

[Green]

This has been a very interesting thread everyone.  Thanks Joel for sharing your wisdom, and look forward to more info, etc. on this tab sear of yours.

[deathwind]

I second what Green said. I check this thread every few hours. Thanks everyone.

Bill

[CLICKERMAN]

I have had numerous phone calls so far.  Please keep them coming!!!!  The phone conversations have all been on the same thing, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT DURING YOUR SHOT?????????  That is the key question that people need to be asking themselves.  Until you know very intimately what is going through your head, you will have no way to control your thoughts.  Only when you know what you are thinking will you be able to stop bad shots before they happen.  Again, you have to make a choice in your archery life.  You can choose to shoot perfectly concentrated arrows with the use of the mantra and a non-anticipatory psychotrigger, or you can choose to allow the subconscious gremlin to let the string go when he wants to.  By perfect arrows I do not mean perfect in result, I mean perfect in concentration.

If you are in your mantra pulling to your psychotrigger and you have a thought towards, geez when is this thing gonna click, or when is that feather gonna touch, or when is my tab sear gonna pop, you have to be able to recognize that thought and LET DOWN!!!!!!!  That is what I am talking about when I say, you need to know your thoughts before you can control your thoughts.  If you are thinking about the trigger, you are not thinking about the movement that will activate the trigger, therefore, you will stop the movement and your thoughts will run wild.  Trap the conscious mind in the muscle group required for the action with the use of the mantra, Keep pulling, Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling, if that is the movement that will get you to the trigger.  If the movement is a press through the tab sear, the mantra is Keep Pressing, Keep Pressing, Keep Pressing...  The mantra traps the conscious mind and puts it in the muscle group.  The rate at which you say the mantra is the rate at which your muscles will move.  That is why you say it in a revolving rhythm that is very smooth.  What you say is directly linked to what you think about.  Your psychotrigger going off should merely be a byproduct of your pulling, pressing, etc.

Your subconscious knows how to relax the fingers and release the string, give it the "GO" signal with the psychotrigger.

Once again, the pivotal point of any target panic cure is not the trigger itself, it is the mental mechanics that gets you to the trigger that is key.  Many cures have been presented in the past, but people are only thinking of the cure itself, instead of what the cure does for the mind.  If it does not separate the shot between subconscious aiming and conscious shot activation, it is only a patch and not a cure.  If the cure still allows the subconscious to determine when to release the string, it is playing right into the hands of the gremlin.  Once he learns the shot, he will shortcut the shot, that is why the "Cure" only lasts for a short time and is really only a patch.

Knowing what to concentrate on and more importantly, how to concentrate, will not allow the subconscious to determine the release point.  When you take the gremlin out of the shot activation, the entire shot becomes very easy, repeatable, robust, and sustainable.

These are just some thoughts from the phone conversations.  Keep the calls coming folks.  Also be thinking about a shooting school that centers on these topics.  If there are a bunch of people in an area that would like this information in a shooting school setting where the drills would be tailored to allow the shooter to practice the mental mechanics,  keep me in mind.  I am going to be shooting a commercial for the school in the near future.

Unlock the Shooting Mind,

JT

[Margly]

This is one of the best threads on TP ever          
Your effort on helping me out is highly appreciated!

Ronny Margly

[2Blade]

Guys I dont try to brag but since ive learned to shoot backtension with a clicker I have 0 TP. It was my fix and does everything I need it too. I hope you guys get to this point to be in full control. Shooting is so much more fun when you know you will reach full draw everytime and pull through the shot consistently. Im living proof that TP can be beaten. I feel like I could kill anything  :D

[2Blade]

On a sidenote I do actually stutter hence my signature. I believe its my Social Anxiety and that also cause my TP. I know I can beat TP so ive been trying to think of a way I can have something else to think about while I talk so I wouldnt stutter. Ive yet to figure out anything because it pops up everyday. I can say I shoot better then I talk, no guff.

[knobby]

Joel, Thanks for the discussion we had the other night. It certainly helped, as I was able to shoot "panic free" last night at our indoor league. (And I've battled TP since 1979!) I shot some arrows with a clicker, and others by using the feather-to-the-nose method. Never flinched once with either style. Was I tack-driving accurate? Nope, but I'm not concerned about that right now. The fact is, I was able to get to anchor, aim and pull through the shot for the first time in decades. I would completely recommend that others take your suggestions.

[CLICKERMAN]

Thanks for the kind words folks.  It does my heart and mind good to know that there are a few more archers out there that have conquered the demon.  Good work to all.  Call if you have questions.

JT

I took Mr. Turner up on his offer and gave him a call last night. He was very generous with his time and talked with me (I should say I listened) for over a half hour. He asked me where my problem was in my shot sequence, and then proceeded to give me his thoughts. I can assure you that he in NO WAY discounts the necessity of good form and building a consistent shot sequence. He simply adds another step between maintainable state and conclusion. It appears to be nothing more complicated than occupying the mind with a mantra of “keep pulling” at a critical time in the shot sequence for those of us who suffer from this demon.

I listened, went out in the garage, stuck four arrows in my pocket and proceeded to do exactly as he suggested. I shot a dozen arrows. I failed miserably on the first, but the next 11 were as near perfect as I have shot in the last two years. I put the bow down and went back in the house to ponder what had just happened.

Am I declaring victory? Hardly. Is it a quick fix? Don’t think so. I’ve spent the last two years learning and building a shot sequence. It is what it is, and is as I described it. Maybe in a couple months …. well…. who knows, but I’m going to give it an honest try.

I would encourage any of you to give him a call. He seemed genuinely thrilled to talk about his “metal mechanics” approach, and is confident in its ability to overcome the demon of target panic.


Update: I went out to the garage this morning to shoot four arrows before heading to the office. Perfect... no apprehension, and no anticipation. I simply ran my "new" shot sequence. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[limbow]

Thanks for the words of encouragement in this thread! Mind over matter is winning the battle for me. I have been shooting at 5 yds with only one arrow now for 3 days. It had been my New Year's resolution to kick the TP problem. Solid anchor is being achieved, back tension is present--FINALLY!!!
I am overwhelmed with happiness that I am on the back side of this frustrating problem. Thank you Tradgang and the shooters forum, thank you for this great thread!!

[Flingblade]

Jim,
Glad to hear Mr. Turner's approach is helping you!  You have helped me several times in the past on my threads dealing with TP; something I have been battling for some time now and I appreciate that.  I am interested to hear how things work for you going forward.  Are you using a non-anticipatory trigger?  For me distances of 20 yards or greater and shooting with an audience is when my control falls apart.  When the concious mind lacks confidence it wants to turn everything over to the sub-concious even more.  At least that is my take on it.  The mantra and trigger have given me the control over the shot I have always wanted as long as my mind is thinking about the action not the trigger.  My mistake at first was thinking about the feather.  For me it seems to be the fix I have been looking for, but it does take mental discipline as Joel talks about to not let yourself shoot bad shots but to concentrate on perfect shot execution every time.  At times I find myself thinking "Is that feather ever going to get here", and I am trying to learn to let down when that happens as those are the bad shots.  
Thanks Joel!!
Gary

[dragonheart]

It really has a shift in the thinking from what I have been taught.  I have been working at the mental mechanics now since I talked with Joel.  If I run the right "script", I can shoot an unanticipated shot.

Last night I shot lots of arrows in darkness "moonlight" and with my eyes closed.  I used the "script" of "keep pushing" that works for me to push my elbow around.  Programming the head!  

I shot well today.  I still think that shooting without seeing, eyes closed, gives the mind the ability to "feel" and "sear" the perfect shot sequence into the physical mechanics.  This is the form work of archery we all must tend to.    

It is really a relaxed state when you can look and allow the mind to aim.  The shot happens, and that arrow appears in the middle of the picture.

[Donald]

After reading this interesting thread, I thought I would add an online site from the world of Olymic archery which appears to confirm what Joel Turner is advocating:

KSL International Archery
    FAQ [frequently asked questions]
        Question 47.  "target panic"

     KSL Shot Cycle [US language]
          9. Aiming and Expansion

Don Teter

[Cato]

Hey Don,

Great link.  I never heard of KSL.  I am working hard on my shot process along with fighting TP so I enjoy reading everything I can.  That site seems to have some really good stuff on it.  Thanks for the tip.

Cato

[Flingblade]

Joel,
I had some trouble last night at our league shoot again.  I was saying draw, aim and then the mantra but was releasing early sometime after draw and before starting the mantra.  What I found to help was starting the mantra early, about four inches before reaching anchor and using the mantra to pull to anchor and through the feather.  I was thinking about the pulling until I reached anchor and then thinking about the correct anchor and then back to the pulling until conclusion when the feather touched.  Any reason I shouldn't be doing it this way?
Thanks,
Gary

[khardrunner]

I've been struggling with TP of some sort for the past 10+ years. I almost gave up. Jay Kidwells stuff has really helped, although I still do not have control over my shot. I can often come to full draw, but I am not in control. I do have some questions maybe you can help with...

1) Is this system completely explained in MBB4? I am looking at swapping to LH due to shoulder issues and I want to build it correctly from the beginning.

2) Can this system be used in conjunction with the form and style presented by John Shultz in the "Hittin em like Howard Hill" video? This is the style I have shot/tried to shoot since the beginning 20 years ago. It is the style I like the most and I would like to keep it if possible.