Target Panic Reality Check

[huntsmanlance]

Joel this is amazing thread....thank you for all of your effort to help people with TP....i really feel like i can over come this now!

The thing im still not getting is  about the sear tab....when do you know to start putting pressure on the sear...and wouldnt it depend on how long your draw length is...and how much pressure you put with your thumb before the sear pops?

Lance

[Jim Keller]

Joel, I was considering quitting shooting trad. I've struggled with tp for over 40 years. Then I got mbb4 and watched your segment and thought I can do that. I went to the archery club and practiced keep pulling keep pulling and touching the feather to my nose. I have to say THANK YOU so much. I'm shooting so much better and enjoying shooting again. I noticed when I'm not getting the feather touch I have to rally concentrate on my mantra and have to keep saying it quickly and concentrate on it, and it comes back to me. Thank you again.

[CLICKERMAN]

Flingblade,

You have to ask yourself what it was that making you let go early.  You may have been having the "Good Enough" thought coming from the gremlin.  It sounds like you got ahold of the issue though. I seems that you are directing your thoughts into the proper areas.

 There is no reason that you can't shoot the way you are describing, however, you need to make a choice to only shoot the shot if it is perfect in concentration.  If you are letting go of bad arrows and failing to let down, you are strengthening the gremlin.  You need to become more in tune with your thoughts.  If your frame of mind is not right during the shot, LET DOWN!!!! I know that is a tough choice to make during a shot, but it will work as a defining moment for you.  There has to be defining moments in your archery.  A shot that was really tough to concentrate on because of outside stress, maybe you had to let down twice, but once you do that, you will really be in tune with your thoughts.  Furthermore, you will be able to repeat it, time and again.  Good luck!!!  Call if you can.

[CLICKERMAN]

Khardrunner,

This system is explained in MBB4.  If you have further questions about it (this is to be expected) feel free to call me so we can chat about it.  It will take me about a half hour to explain it in detail and to evaluate your shot.

To answer your second question, this system can be used with any form style as long as the style deals with coming to FULL draw before releasing the arrow.  I have not watched that film, I apologize.  Feel free to call so I can analyze your shot.

[CLICKERMAN]

Lance,

The tab sear has nothing to do with draw length.  I put my thumbnail on the sear as soon as the aim is completed.  When I am comfortable with the aim, I start applying pressure to the sear by pressing my thumb towards my palm.  When the sear pops as a surprise, that triggers my subconscious release.  Call if you can.

Take Care

[Donald]

Khardrunner,
Your 2nd question is an interesting one.

Because I am (gratefully) fortunate enough to not be plagued with severe TP, I  can shoot both the  target and Howard Hill styles.  These two styles, IMO, are very different.

What Joel is sharing makes good sense and would be effective for more target style shooting, where, as he noted one is anchoring at full draw for one to several seconds.

I do not believe it would be as effective for the more Howard Hill style, because one does not hold at anchor with that style for any length of time.

IMO, trying to comtrol tp using the Howard Hill style would be more difficult to deal with.  It would be interesting on another thread to learn how folks control tp when shooting the Howard Hill style.

[khardrunner]

Mr. Turner, I will give you a call soon to discuss some options.

I can see how the Hill Style would be very difficult to fight TP. I hope that I can figure that out, although I don't experience TP lefty ....yet.

[khardrunner]

Thanks again for the time spent on the phone. It's been helpful so far as I build my shot left handed.

I do have one question that comes in two parts... how do you shoot quickly using this process? I'm thinking in terms of moving targets.

[cch]

khardrunner, You will have to practice that. It is very hard to shoot with the mantra and trigger on moving targets. You will have to use the subconscious to help you with that. I was shooting with Joel last week and asked him if he used this technique in close up combat shooting with his pistol and he said no because he wasn't concerned with super accuracy.  If it is a slow target like a walking deer you can still use the mantra and trigger but on the faster arial targets or running targets get lots of practice.
Chris.

[Flingblade]

Has anyone else made and used a tab sear?  I am trying to figure out what to use for the sear.  Joel said he used the metal arrow rest from a timber doodle style rest but I don't have one of those.  Was thinking about a similar metal or plastic blade or even some type of small switch or toggle mounted to the tab.  Any ideas?

[huntsmanlance]

The problem i am having with TP is getting to full draw....before knowing about the mantra the gremlin would scream....let go!...the string was about at my nose....the mantra keeps my mind busy for that couple of extra inches.

When i shoot at my 3 D i say...draw...the aim takes care of itself...and i say...keep pulling....keep pulling and as soon as the feather touches my nose the arrow is gone...no need to go any slower than you usually would when shooting at an animal.

[Donald]

Huntsmanlance,
I think you have made an excellent adaptation that I had not considered for Howard Hill style shooting!!

Your  aiming is subconscious, but your conscious mind is fully occupied with the pulling mantra as the arrow is drawn to anchor, which controls the tp.

Thanks for sharing it!
Don

[khardrunner]

I've considered saying the mantra from the point that I start the straight back motion portion on the draw until I anchor and release.

Without modifying it, I still don't see how it would work for fast shooting or moving targets as demonstrated in Shultz's video. I know there is a clip online somewhere if you are not familar with it.

[deathwind]

This isn't the best picture but my camera quit after the first try. I took a clicker apart and used the clicking part of it on the bottom of the tab. I'm setting it off with my pinky finger and it's seems to be working great so far. Hopefully this will give some others an idea and they will post also. If everyone would post their contraptions, maybe we can come with a really good idea.

Thanks,
Bill

[CLICKERMAN]

Whatever tab sear / clicker or other psychotrigger you come up with, please remember to keep the concentration in the movement that makes the psychotrigger go off and not the trigger itself.  If you start thinking, "Man, when is this thing gonna go off?" you are not thinking about the movement that makes it go off.  If that occurs, you will probably start to anticipate the psychotrigger, whatever it is.

The mantra will put the conscious mind in the muscle group that is required for that action.  The psychotrigger going off should be a byproduct of your movement.  For example, the tab clicker shown in the above post should go off as a byproduct of your pressing.

Good work folks, now you are thinking!!!!

[Capt]

Thanks so much Joel.  I had watched Vol IV and was trying your system and after reading your posts it has really hit home what is needed to gain full control over my shot.  

In my opinion the one thing about this system that makes it work is the mantra forces you to concentrate on every shot.  As soon as I nock the arrow to loose I am talking myself through everything and that allows me to ignore all the outside factors.  No the test will be in front of others, that is were I find myself having trouble.

[LongStick64]

As far as using a trigger, I prefer to use bone on bone back tension as the trigger. In your segment on the DVD you mention "keep pulling", I say "keep squeezing". This way I make sure I am in good alignment prior to starting my mantra.

[CLICKERMAN]

Longstick64,

The mantra is there to force concentration into the muscles you are speaking about.  If "Squeezing" works for your mind, I say, GOOD WORK!!!!!  Keep the concentration in the movement through the use of your mantra.  Nice work sir.

JT

[Yohon]

Just thought Id post this little nugget I found reading about Navy SEAL training....seems to fit what Joel is trying to say:

Neuroscientist estimate that we say 300 to 1000 words to ourselves every waking minute. In time of stress, that internal monologue can become a high pitched shriek from your brains anxiety center, the amygdala. SEALS override these self generated fears by learning to emphasize, over and over, the positive aspect of what they are doing, says petty officer Buck, 31, a SEAL sniper. “If you need to lift more, you tell your self, “Stronger, Stronger. Stronger.’ If you need more speed you tell yourself “Faster. Faster. Faster.” Unless you train yourself to do this through repetitive practice-thousands of iterations-the negative voice will drown out the positive.  

[CLICKERMAN]

Yohon,


Thanks for that input, I always find it fascinating that the mind will come up with a mantra under times of needed concentration to complete a task.  It is interesting that I find when the mind does this, it will always say it more than once and in a rhythm "Stronger, Stronger, Stronger"  Once I realized this phenomenon, I see it nearly everyday in some form or another.  With the mantra of "Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling" you are putting the mind in certain muscles and you are giving it the rate of movement with the rhythm at which you say it!!!!  Really cool stuff when you realize how connected our speech is to the conscious mind.

Take Care,

JT