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Author Topic: can bad form cause this  (Read 1051 times)

Offline allek81

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can bad form cause this
« on: February 21, 2012, 06:12:00 AM »
i cant seem to get bare shaft tunning right im shooting RH 55# 30in draw im using 31 inch cut arrows (easton powerflight) off the shelf ive tried 500 spine 400 spine and 340 spine all with 125 tips and have tried 100 grian insert for added weight up front they all seem to be hitting right with nock left at 3 meters 5 meters and 10 metres could my form be that bad to cause this
When the archer misses the center target, he turns and looks within himself for the cause of his miss

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 07:20:00 AM »
What's the average diameter of your groups at 10 meters?

Offline Joe Pawelko Jr.

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 08:53:00 AM »
I would concentrate on smoothing out your release, in my experience if I pluck the string pretty much everything shows up nock left for right hand.

Offline allek81

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 05:15:00 PM »
jim my diameters at 10 metres are about 10-12 inchs
When the archer misses the center target, he turns and looks within himself for the cause of his miss

Offline Hasbro

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 11:42:00 PM »
Maybe..  I'd build out my strike plate a little at a time & see if thet strightens them out.

Offline Marc Morton

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 11:14:00 PM »
Hasbro - I have a question about that - I am a lefty and my arrows seem to hit right - I'm shooting 45# @ 28, Beeman MFX classic 500s 30" with 145gr field points and 5" RW helicals - would that work for me too?  it's driving me crazy.....

Offline GabeGa

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2012, 11:29:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Marc Morton:
 - 500s 30" with 145gr field points and 5" RW helicals -  
get some 100GR -125GR target points , and make sure you pull back that 28" and see if you get different results -Experiment      ;)        :archer:    
mark your arrow at 28" with a silver permanent marker ...
and those 500 spine arrows should be cut to 28 3/4" without the nock and field point ,so when you re install them you get back 3/4" on your arrow length , -it makes it ... 29 1/2"
i am not very good...but i like it a lot...Re-Curve'R

Offline njloco

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 02:58:00 PM »
Is it 55# at 30" draw or at 28" ? How much of a center cut shelf do you have ?

Where is your release hand after the release ?, where is your bow arm after the release ? I don't see how you could get the same or pretty much the same results with three different spined arrows.

Can you post up a video of you shooting from different angles ?
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Offline gonefishing600

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2012, 01:52:00 AM »
If you only have 125gr tips, and are trying to bare shaft, your making thing a little hard on yourself. What your describing nock left, point of impact is to the right of where you’re aiming, shaft is to weak.

If your matching a set of new arrows for the first time to a bow, you need to have the right equipment and follow a few fundamental rules.

First, get a copy of stew miller’s Dynamic Spine Calculator; it will get you in the ball park.
Second, make sure you have a nice assortment of field tips ranging from 100gr to 250gr if possible.
Third, you need to know how your riser is cut + or – from center of the bow. (Ask you bowyer)
The further past center your shelf is cut (-) the stiffer the shaft you will need.
The further away from center your shelf is cut (+) the weaker the shaft you will need.

You must understand the archer’s paradox. (see YouTube)
The more you cut a shaft, the stiffer it gets and the more weight you need to achieve paradox.
The longer the shaft, the weaker it gets, and the less weight you need to achieve paradox.
The more force that is put on the end of a particular shaft, the less weight you need up front to achieve paradox.
The less force that is put on the end of the same shaft the more weight you will need up front to achieve paradox.
If your right handed, nock left, shaft point of impact is to the right of where you’re aiming, shaft to weak.
If your right handed, nock right, shaft point of impact is to the left of where you’re aiming, shaft to stiff.

Now, let’s suppose you have a bow with a draw weight of 55# @ 28, and you have a draw of 30”, actual draw weight would be around 60# of draw weight. And let’s suppose that Stew Millers Dynamic Spine Calculator calls for a .340 spined shaft at 31.250 with a 175gr tip. If it was me, I would start with a full length bare shaft, at 32” and cut 2 more shafts ½ “ apart, and start with a 100gr tip @ 15 yards, moving up 25gr at a time until one of those shaft shot straight, and then move back to 25 yards. If it is showing weak at full length with a 100gr tip, well then you know you need a stiffer shaft, or you have to shorten the shaft, and you only have 1 ½ to play with a 30” draw. Use the rules above, and move to a .300 or a .400 if needed. Set your nock at 5/8” for split finger and ¾ for 3 under. Watch your shaft, you’ll know you got it when she straightens out. And get rid of that 100gr insert for now.


If your shelf is cut past center you’re probably going to need .340. If it’s cut before center, you may need .400. You got to have a goal in mind, either your aiming for a particular tip weight, for a particular game animal, or your aiming for a particular shaft length. But the first objective is to find where your at, then you can start adjusting. The more you shorten your shaft, the more weight you will need. The longer the shaft the less weight you will need.

I hope this isn’t to much information, if so I apologize.
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Offline gringol

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 09:03:00 AM »
Yes, bad form will cause poor groups.  Think of it this way, the only variable between shots is you.  The bow is the same.  Arrows are grain and spine matched, distance is the same.  If you had a tuning problem only, all your arrows would group together, but left, right, high, low, etc.  Grouping problems are form problems.  Consistently high, right etc are tuning problems.

You could have a combination of problems, but based on a 10" group at 10m a good part of the issue is form.

Offline gonefishing600

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 01:21:00 PM »
I agree with you for the most part, but if you look at his post, he states that he had 100gr insert and 125gr tip, for a total of 225gr. on a shaft spined at .500, with a 60# bow and a 30” draw, so the shaft length is at least 31”. I would bet a dollar to a doughnut, his 500’s are too weak, and possibly the 400’s also. I shoot 400’s @ 30 ½ 145gr tip out of several of my 46# bow.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
JD Berry Argos 64" 48#&28"
Toelke Classic Whip 64" 46#@28"
Acs one piece 64" 46#@28"
BlackWidow PLX 66" 46#@28"

Offline moebow

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 03:22:00 PM »
gonefishing..  His arrows may be out of spine but I suggest that off spine arrows will still group -- probably just not where you want.  An open pattern is nearly always form.  It takes a VERY off spine arrow to start opening a group and then it is almost always a spine that FAR too weak.
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Offline gonefishing600

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Re: can bad form cause this
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 06:09:00 PM »
No way I'm going to debate moebow, so allek81, time to break out the video camera, and show us what you got.
JD Berry Argos 64" 48#&28"
Toelke Classic Whip 64" 46#@28"
Acs one piece 64" 46#@28"
BlackWidow PLX 66" 46#@28"

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