Shooting form help needed

[bowhunterportugal]

Hi Gang,

I recently started shooting trad. I've got a Samick Stingray 58" 55#@28 and it's giving me a hard time.
I'll receive tomorrow a BW PSA V so I'm hopping that it will easy on me a little.

I use to say I'm youtube taught... Never got any lesson's!

Now that I found tradgang I was hopping you could help me on this.

Here is a video of some shooting I made today:
 http://s1053.photobucket.com/albums/s462/bowhunterportugal/Trad%20From%20Training/?action=view¤t=TradForm.mp4  

Comments please. All the help is welcome.

Thanks for watching.

Diogo

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Hey there,

I am not an expert and I am sure others here will be along shortly to help. From what I see, your string hand elbow is probably too high, and you maaaaay not be fully engaging your back muscles. The second part is hard to tell from the camera angles given. As I said, I am not an expert and others on here will be more helpful than me.

[bowhunterportugal]

Yes, I've herd that this bow is to short for me!Don't know if that's true, that it is stacking.

I have the same feeling regarding the elbow but I'm having a hard time lowering it! Didn't figured out yet.

Thanks

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Hey, I just remembered a few videos done by one of the guys here on trad gang. I am putting up a couple links to videos which should help.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOlAnKHG9GM&list=UUD0ESYWAUqh8JXKtxJ8Mnvw&index=6&feature=plcp
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LceBNHj1FDM&list=UUD0ESYWAUqh8JXKtxJ8Mnvw&index=16&feature=plcp

[moebow]

Diogo,  Over all you look pretty good!  You look to have a very consistent shot.  I do agree that it looks like you are getting your string elbow a little high.  Watch yourself when you draw, your string arm comes back nice and level with your shoulders (good)  then when you lift to your anchor position, you lift your entire string side by lifting your shoulder.  You can really see the lift in the shoulder by watching your shirt -- see it pull up?

Try this.  When you get ready to lift to anchor, just rotate your upper arm to lift the string forearm and hand to anchor.  Stand near a wall or something that your elbow will just touch as you reach full draw.  Now just pivot your elbow on the wall and see that your forearm and hand lift to your anchor.  Try this a few times without a bow to get the feel.  This motion will help lower your elbow and stop you from raising that shoulder so much.

I believe that the small out and down movement of your string hand is caused by the high elbow which is caused by lifting that shoulder; this also puts you into very high up back muscles.

As far as bow length is concerned, 58" can be a little short but you do not mention your draw length so it is hard to say.  It does not look like you are getting to close to the draw limits of your current bow but how it feels to you is what is important.  How long will your new PSA be?

[bowhunterportugal]

Trumpkin, thanks for the links. I'll look to them carefully.

Moebow, I was wishing you to help me. I didn't quite understand the wall thing and what do you mean by rotating my upper arm. Can't quite visualize what you mean. Sorry, my English can trick me sometimes, so bear with me please.

Yes, I can see the shirt now that you mentioned. It feel's that I'm lifting to get in a comfortable position. I've red so many things here about shooting form that my mind doesn't know what to think first. Back tension, tension on the bottom of my back, shoulder alignment, you name it. I'm most certain failing in all of them.

With a 62" 50#@28 bow I tried, I have draw 29". With this one I can't. Don't know why! I'm around 6'something (187 cm)so it should be no problem. But I think I'm about 28. The arrows are cut at 29, so pretty close I would say. But it feels like I can't pull it back more unless to break it in peaces! It must be my back muscles that aren't working properly.
Also,I've notice now that my bow arm bends a little when I anchor! I shoot a slightly bent bow arm with my compound so I have better movement and control when hunting from trees or tree stands. Do you think this is bad, or can it be caused by the compound form?

My PSA will arrive tomorrow evening. Saturday will give it a try. It is 60" 53#@28, so it should help a little, I imagine.

[bowhunterportugal]

I appreciate your help.I'll keep filming my shots so I can show you, hear your opinions and improve with them, I hope...

[bowhunterportugal]

Moebow, What angles should I film myself so I (and you) can see better what's happening?

[moebow]

Let us see if I can explain the elbow idea  from the earlier post.  Stand by a wall so when you put your string arm in shooting position your elbow is touching the wall.  Now, turn your elbow like you were drilling a hole in the wall with your elbow.  If you drill a hole in the wall, you will find your string hand and forearm moving up to your anchor. But your shoulder will stay down.

When you draw in the video, you pull the string to a point that is just below your anchor and then lift to anchor. This is good.  I am suggesting that rather than lifting your shoulder, you rotate the humerus (upper arm bone).  The rotation will feel like you are drilling a hole in the wall with your elbow.  See if this explanation try helps.

As far as your bow and the feel of stacking, you may be hitting the stack point on that bow.  Long draw and kind of short bow along with a 55# draw will make those last inches feel pretty hard.

I think you will love your new Black Widow.

Looking forward to more videos.

Arne

[bowhunterportugal]

I think I got it. I'll try it to see if I can put that teaching to work.

This bow feels really hard the last inches. I'm hopping the BW can make it easier for me to tackle this form issue.

It's all part of the fun.

I'll keep you posted.

Mean while, I'll look at some of your videos.

Thanks

[moebow]

Just saw your question about video angles.  Straight in front of you like most of the video you just posted, directly from behind, also straight from behind but with the camera as high and looking down as possible, and one from quartering in front.  These would be the best angles for a start.

[Terry Green]

I got your email sir...will view and comment when I get a chance...under the gun at the moment...

[bowhunterportugal]

Thanks Terry, appreciate. Please don't call me sir! I should call you sir, not the other way around. Diogo will do.  

[manitou1]

I agree with moebow.  Make sure you get back tension. You don't want to get that final squeeze by using your string arm elbow.  It should feel like you are trying to touch your two shoulder blades together... just a bit.  Also, once you achieve the back tension, give yourself about a half-second pause to let your bow arm settle on target. You are shooting way too fast.It will make a world of difference for you.  You won't be able to tell by yourself... you will have to film this or have somebody watch you.  When you are at anchor, your string arm forearm should be level and in line with your drawn arrow... both horizontally and vertically.  This will also save wear and tear on your shoulders and arms ( and possibly fingers) if everything is aligned properly. The exercise that moebow suggests  works wonders and will give you a good feel for a clean release, as-well-as back tension.  
Find a tree, post, or building corner and stand  with it over your string shoulder behind you.  When you draw and anchor, make sure your string elbow touches the tree, corner, or post and apply a little pressure.  You will likely be off the first couple of shots like this because you will be focusing your attention behind you, but after that it will feel pretty good to you.  You will get a feel of what a clean release should feel like as well as back tension.  I still use this method for a tune up every now and then.
That string arm elbow needs to be behind you in line with your arrow.  Try saying to yourself as you shoot: "draw, anchor, back tension (or squeeze), pause.  Your release should become automatic when your brain senses that your bow arm is where it needs to be... remember, give it about half a second pause after you achieve back tension.  If you make the release a step, you may risk anticipating the release and plucking or collapsing the shot.  Happy shooting,
Rick

[bowhunterportugal]

Hi gang,

I've shot today the BW finally! I did a video which I'll post tomorrow. I feel really comfortable shooting it but, regarding back tension, I'm having trouble identifying it.

Manitou1. If you use that technique of having something to touch with your elbow, you wouldn't have by chance a video of it so I could see exactly what you mean by that?

Well, let see tomorrow what you have to say about the video.

Thanks

[manitou1]

No... I don't have a video.  Just draw as normal with the object directly behind your shooting shoulder... then you kind of have to lean back a bit to touch the drawing elbow against the stationary object.
Another thing... back tension is hard to feel, unless you are achieving it. Otherwise, it is absent and you cannot feel it.  It is almost as if you are "poking" your chest out a little after you come to full draw.  Practice squeezing your shoulder blades together without the bow. You can feel it.  Just don't exaggerate it as much.  After you get it, it will become pretty obvious once you know what it is and how it feels.
Shoot straight,
Rick

[Terry Green]

I didn't read what was posted...but what I saw last week when I 1st watched was that you where all aligned as you started to draw...and still aligned about half way back....then your bow arm dropped and your drawing elbow went up.

At this point you were having to muscle the bow to keep it on target, and your energy was not directed directly toward and away from the target.

[bowhunterportugal]

Thanks Terry,

I received a BW PSA last Friday. Just uploading the video so everybody can tell if anything changed. I also tried to think and correct the elbow problem while shooting.

One thing is for sure, the BW is way easier to shoot than my Samick Stingray.

A couple more minutes and I'll post the video here.

Thanks

[bowhunterportugal]

Here is a video I made after getting some tips on this topic:

  http://s1053.photobucket.com/albums/s462/bowhunterportugal/Trad%20From%20Training/?action=view¤t=VID-20120427-00109.mp4  

Still struggling with the elbow and with the bow.

Video with the BW coming up...

[moebow]

Diogo,  Looking lots better.  the last shot in this video was the best one in my opinion.  I would suggest that you slow your release a little.  It is kind of fast right now but over all you are looking good.

Arne