Olympic Form vs. the Rest of Us

[Prewar70]

So why does nearly every Olympic archer use an under chin anchor and a split finger hold?  And why do the rest of us hunters/etc. use a corner of the mouth or 3 under or arrow shaft below the corner of our eye?  I know there are exceptions but you get my point.  Why are we not modeling our form after what the best traditional archers in the world are doing?  I was watching some Olympic videos last night and it hit me all at once how consistent those archers forms are compared to what we do in the hunting world.  Bow cant is another one.  I can't believe it has to do with sights alone, that doesn't seem enough to answer it.  I like the arrow clickers the target community uses too.  I haven't seen that discussed here, it's almost always the string clicker.  I realize an arrow clicker wouldn't work with a broadhead but for the rest of the year it would.  Does anyone here use one?  It made a lot of sense to me after reading about the keep pulling mantra and physco triggers.  Anyway, a lot of differences between our community and the target folks.  What can we learn?  What do you think?

[moebow]

I've spent a lot of time learning the Oly style of shooting with the intent to see how much carries over to our shooting.  The short answer is MOST of it.  One of the problems we have in the "hunting" community is that we think there is a huge difference but there really isn't.

We use a side of face anchor ( or variations) because is is faster and accommodates our most often used sighting styles.  The under the chin anchor simply works best for shooting with sights and at the longer distances they shoot.  It is a slightly stronger position but slower to get to.  It really is just a variation of anchor positions like three under & split styles we use.

The arrow clicker, as you point out won't work with a Broad head and is "fussier" to use since you have to thread an arrow under  it before you can draw.  With the string/limb clicker, it is just there and ready to go.

As far as canting or not goes, it is largely the sights used on a target bow (same with compounds) but also has to due with the "tune" of the bow and the distances they shoot.  Helping to eliminate ANY or as many as possible of the variables.

What we can really learn (I have) is really good use of the back muscles, bone on bone support and getting everything we don't need for the shot relaxed and out of the process.  I think too many just see the target archer as an upright statue and don't realize that that form has under laying principals that can be applied to all shooting.

I've been to many of the top "name" instructors in the trad community and they all have great basic form (alignments).  I have spent the last 6 years learning and qualifying as a fairly high level USA Archery coach (Oly style) and can say from my experience that many in the trad area of archery could learn a LOT from the "target" folks.  We seem to just shut down our minds the minute "target archery" comes into the conversation.  It is too bad because many "disciplines" are enhanced by "cross talk" and knowledge sharing.

Arne

[Terry Green]

Its olympic style......not form .  Good form is good form and is compatible with many styles.....AND  various shooting positions and cant angles.

[arrow flynn]

Bob wesley put forth in his school the power triangle its the hhill method with both hands do nothing hand stays in the face.he would say pull hard into your face. Well then you have the other method being taught where on release the string hand winds up on your shoulder. Everyone it seems to me discounts the dead release. I recently had to switch over to lefty and in the course of my struggle went to the dead release bingo it eliminated my collapseing bow arm problem and my arrows moved to the center. Hhill had it rt. Anyone else go thru this?

[moebow]

arrow flynn,  MANY folks shoot very well with a dead release!  Also, MANY shoot very well with a dynamic release!  The one common thread is that the string hand stays in the same line (relative to the arrow line) after release that it had before release.

By keeping the string hand tight on the face, you remove largely any left right inputs to the arrow.  Whether it moves straight back along the cheek/jaw, or stays in place is relatively unimportant.  There is NO magic in either style other than maintaining your alignment through the shot.

The largest disadvantage of the dead release is that it CAN lead to collapsing at release.  In order to hold that hand still you have to add the use of muscle groups that are not needed for the shot. And you CAN end up reaching a "stopping" point.

The disadvantage of the dynamic release is that folks try to "do" the follow through rather than just letting it happen.  This can lead to a flipping string hand that can also destroy your alignments.  With the dynamic release, it is irrelevant how far the hand moves. It may be to the shoulder, behind the ear, or a half inch.  

If you watch the videos of Hill shooting that Terry posts you will see a small movement to the rear.  The "both hands do nothing" quote I believe is often misunderstood.  My "take" on that is that the quote does not mean they don't move, just that we do nothing to affect their movement.  We do not make any thing happen, just allow to happen what will.  IF your alignments and Power triangle are correct for you, The hand will stay or move where it needs to.

Arne

[arrow flynn]

thanks moebow

[FarmerMarley]

This is a great thread!
This forum has contributed greatly to my archery form. Thanks to all those who offer there insights and experience!

I like the idea of taking pieces from different disciplines/ styles and incorporating it into my own style (if it works). I test that out on the blank bale.
It is amazing how much of a journey form is. You could spend forever working on it, experimenting, refining...

[Diamond Paul]

I think split finger is required in Olympic archery; they must anchor that low to get enough sight travel for the distance they shoot.  Also, it is much easier to use proper back tension anchoring under the chin, rather than higher on the face.  Oly archers also must be able to touch the tip of the nose to the string in order to get a consistent relationship between their eyes and their sights; otherwise, they would hit left, right, etc.  I don't think Oly method would work too well for shooting without sights, as the arrow is too far from the eye; this is the main reason people find three under improves accuracy: it gets the arrow even closer to the eye.

[BobCo 1965]

Just to clarify, split is not required. Usually the sight is pretty much bottomed out at 90 meters (100 yards) for a FITA competition; however, Olympic distances are set at 70 meters (77 yards). There is usually quite a bit of room between the aperture of the sight and the arrow as it passes by for competition archers at 70 meters. Most men archers are pulling 40-50 pounds through the clicker, personally, I pull 50 pounds.
Some Olympic archers do touch the string on the nose as a reference point depending on their body structure, draw length, and length of bow, not all do. Personally, I do not. Most everyone does use the string blur on either side of the aperture as a reference (a lot of hunters do as well, I do). I also believe it is correct that under the chin promotes better bio-mechanics and back tension as mentioned in Diamond Paul’s post. However, there are still other styles that I have seen (Asian) that promote even better back tension IMO. However, it is a give and take as I feel there is a loss of precise anchor points.

[Scarne]

I think one of the biggest obstacles to good form and really learning how to shoot properly is being over bowed.

The fact that you can pull a given weight to anchor for a brief second dosen't mean you should be shooting that weight.

The draw should be easy, you should be able to settle in phyisically and mentally.  Most guys struggle with their gear.  Personally I think if most peeps dropped ten pounds they would be far better off.  They could feel the back tension develop instead of struggling to get there.

When I started FITA style my gear was 22 pounds.  Dosen't sound like much but like weight lifting...you start with the bar and develop proper form.

[BobCo 1965]

I think Brian makes an excellent point(s). To go one step further, therabands, are also a great training tool that can either be looped around a bow or used on their own. I think Arne has mentioned them on numberous occasions. When refining an aspect of the shot, I usually start with the theraband (could be for days), move to a lightweight limbs, then to the regular bow.

In support of Brian's statement above and in speaking with a US Olympic archer this past year, it took this individual years to feel comfortable enough to move up just six pounds in bow weight. This person averages around 300 arrow per day among other training.